The all things EV chat thread

[PJ87]

Daily Mail admits making up story about electric vehicles causing potholes - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment

Pallavi Sethi explains the basis for complaining to the Independent Press Standards Organisation about the newspaper’s misrepresentation of a report from the Asphalt Industry Alliance and why such reporting continues to damage the British public’s understanding of climate change policies.

www.lse.ac.uk

Colour me not surprised

Knew it was rubbish when it was publised

You never see a full front page retraction when the press peddle misinformation

Damage is already done.

About time they were held to account.

 

[Hobbit]

Daily Mail admits making up story about electric vehicles causing potholes - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment

Pallavi Sethi explains the basis for complaining to the Independent Press Standards Organisation about the newspaper’s misrepresentation of a report from the Asphalt Industry Alliance and why such reporting continues to damage the British public’s understanding of climate change policies.

www.lse.ac.uk

Colour me not surprised

Knew it was rubbish when it was publised

You never see a full front page retraction when the press peddle misinformation

Damage is already done.

About time they were held to account.

I doubt there was much damage done. Daily Mail readership has dropped by 1.2m in the last 5 years, down to 966k. How many of those are interested in EV’s? Stretch the stats even further and you could say less than 2% of DM readers would be interested in EV’s, and what % of that number would believe the story AND be looking to buy a new car? You’re down in the hundreds…

 

[PJ87]

I doubt there was much damage done. Daily Mail readership has dropped by 1.2m in the last 5 years, down to 966k. How many of those are interested in EV’s? Stretch the stats even further and you could say less than 2% of DM readers would be interested in EV’s, and what % of that number would believe the story AND be looking to buy a new car? You’re down in the hundreds…

Problem is all this misinformation is shared and used as reasons why 'evs are bad'

I remember this article being linked on here when discussing state of the roads

Even the house of lords has said there is far too much wrong information being peddled by the press . Almost like they have shares in oil companies.

 

[Hobbit]

Problem is all this misinformation is shared and used as reasons why 'evs are bad'

I remember this article being linked on here when discussing state of the roads

Even the house of lords has said there is far too much wrong information being peddled by the press . Almost like they have shares in oil companies.

But who with half a brain believes it? Every wagon you see on the road is heavier than an EV. It’s a non-story.

 

[PJ87]

But who with half a brain believes it? Every wagon you see on the road is heavier than an EV. It’s a non-story.

Problem is people even with a full brain seems to fall for a lot of this misinformation.

 

[Robster59]

How did he get you into the car in the end? Was it a hidden key hole?

Is it the 12 volt that's failed or the car?

He managed to get in to the car in the end. He just turned the key in the hidden lock more than I was prepared to. Getting the charging flap open was more of a challenge. It looks like it's the 12 volt battery that is the issue (apart from the high voltage cooling system which still has yet to be repaired). As soon as he took his own 12V supply of the car, nothing would open again. The bloke who came to pick up the car managed to get it moving on the hybrid battery enough to get it onto the trailer. It's now sitting at the dealers awaiting repair.

 

[Robster59]

And a trusty Haynes Manual, no doubt.

Oh the bible. Absolutely. Great training for working on cars. I open the bonnet on my hybrid now and I have the petrol engine on the left and the electric motor on the right. I have no idea where the 12V battery is. They just have two metal connections under the fuse cover that you connect the charger to.

 

[Robster59]

Daily Mail admits making up story about electric vehicles causing potholes - Grantham Research Institute on climate change and the environment

Pallavi Sethi explains the basis for complaining to the Independent Press Standards Organisation about the newspaper’s misrepresentation of a report from the Asphalt Industry Alliance and why such reporting continues to damage the British public’s understanding of climate change policies.

www.lse.ac.uk

Colour me not surprised

Knew it was rubbish when it was publised

You never see a full front page retraction when the press peddle misinformation

Damage is already done.

About time they were held to account.

I'd agree to that. I firmly believe that if a story is incorrect, the retraction should cover the same number of pages as the incorrect story, rather than hiding it away in the middle of the paper.. That will make them to check they have their facts correct rather than just going for the sensationalist.

Anyway, in Scotland we all know it is the wild haggis coming into town and digging nests in the middle of the road. No wonder they're an endangered species.

 

[PJ87]

He managed to get in to the car in the end. He just turned the key in the hidden lock more than I was prepared to. Getting the charging flap open was more of a challenge. It looks like it's the 12 volt battery that is the issue (apart from the high voltage cooling system which still has yet to be repaired). As soon as he took his own 12V supply of the car, nothing would open again. The bloke who came to pick up the car managed to get it moving on the hybrid battery enough to get it onto the trailer. It's now sitting at the dealers awaiting repair.

Yeah the 12 volts are one of the biggest problems with modern cars. So much runs off them.

Tesla is trialing lithium based ones as they fail less often

It's mad that there isn't a way to use the massive battery in the car to provide the power to start but it's too powerful I guess. If Tesla won't work on it then it defo wont work

Glad to hear they finally got you in and hopefully should fix it soon.

 

[bobmac]

Anyway, in Scotland we all know it is the wild haggis coming into town and digging nests in the middle of the road. No wonder they're an endangered species.

I was well and truly conned by a the Inverness Courier around 1978.
Front page headline....
LOCH NESS MONSTER SPOTTED BY 2 STUDENTS
Pictures inside, page 9

I bought the paper and eagerly turned to page 9 to see Nessy, there were pictures of the 2 students

 

[GreiginFife]

I'm not that au fait with EVs from a mechanical stand-point, but why does an electric motor need a 12v to "start" it? The only reason an ICE needs a 12v battery is to crank the starter that then turns the flywheel and to provide ignition spark at the coil pack. But as we keep getting told, an electric motor is much simpler (debatable if you actually look at what's inside a sealed unit) so what purpose does a 12v serve?

 

[PJ87]

I'm not that au fait with EVs from a mechanical stand-point, but why does an electric motor need a 12v to "start" it? The only reason an ICE needs a 12v battery is to crank the starter that then turns the flywheel and to provide ignition spark at the coil pack. But as we keep getting told, an electric motor is much simpler (debatable if you actually look at what's inside a sealed unit) so what purpose does a 12v serve?

 

[Robster59]

Yeah the 12 volts are one of the biggest problems with modern cars. So much runs off them.

Tesla is trialing lithium based ones as they fail less often

It's mad that there isn't a way to use the massive battery in the car to provide the power to start but it's too powerful I guess. If Tesla won't work on it then it defo wont work

Glad to hear they finally got you in and hopefully should fix it soon.

I agree with you. With the cost of a car, the additional cost of a Lithium Ion car battery would be minimal.
And the demand they are putting on the batteries now is far more than 10 or 20 years ago yet they still use lead-acid. I moved from them to Lithium in my golf trolley years ago.
And why can't they trickle charge the 12V via a transformer from the mains battery. Crazy.

 

[GreiginFife]

So

View attachment 53056

So just background systems power then? Nothing do do with starting the car?
Would have though someone would have figured out how to create a step-down transformer to power these off the main battery without issue, seeing as we use transformers in multiple applications anyway.

 

[PJ87]

So

So just background systems power then? Nothing do do with starting the car?
Would have though someone would have figured out how to create a step-down transformer to power these off the main battery without issue, seeing as we use transformers in multiple applications anyway.

It must be a cost thing. Because even Tesla have just put in a lithium version rather than work on a step down.

From my reading the 12 volt is needed to start the car as it wakes the car and boots the system , without that the car will not start even with a full charged battery

 

[cliveb]

It must be a cost thing. Because even Tesla have just put in a lithium version rather than work on a step down.

From my reading the 12 volt is needed to start the car as it wakes the car and boots the system , without that the car will not start even with a full charged battery

We've already had this discussion earlier in this thread, starting here: https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/the-all-things-ev-chat-thread.107236/post-2572376
It never got resolved then. The reasons given did not satisfy my curiosity at the time, and I've still never seen an expert explain exactly why EVs need a separate old-fashioned 12V battery.

 

[PJ87]

We've already had this discussion earlier in this thread, starting here: https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/the-all-things-ev-chat-thread.107236/post-2572376
It never got resolved then. The reasons given did not satisfy my curiosity at the time, and I've still never seen an expert explain exactly why EVs need a separate old-fashioned 12V battery.

Why Do EVs Still Need 12 V Lead-Acid Batteries? Well, They Don’t!

The continuous advancement of lithium-ion battery technology has given electric cars longer driving range, faster acceleration and more horsepower than ever before. And yet, most EVs on the road today still carry around a 12 V lead-acid battery for standby power. But why?

www.power.com

Sounds like it comes down to cost.

 

[jim8flog]

So

So just background systems power then? Nothing do do with starting the car?
Would have though someone would have figured out how to create a step-down transformer to power these off the main battery without issue, seeing as we use transformers in multiple applications anyway.

already said but my understanding is the you need to totally isolate the battery pack when working on the car for other reasons.

There is a simple 'switch' on my car for doing this.

 

[cliveb]

Why Do EVs Still Need 12 V Lead-Acid Batteries? Well, They Don’t!

The continuous advancement of lithium-ion battery technology has given electric cars longer driving range, faster acceleration and more horsepower than ever before. And yet, most EVs on the road today still carry around a 12 V lead-acid battery for standby power. But why?

www.power.com

Sounds like it comes down to cost.

Bear in mind that article is basically a marketing effort from a company that makes the type of DC converters that you might use instead of a 12V battery.
So they probably have a vested interest

But reading it, the one plausible reason for keeping an entirely separate 12V system that occurs to me is that if you use DC converters from the main battery for the 12V side, if it goes horribly wrong then you might get high voltage fed into the ancilliaries with potentially fatal consequences for the occupants. That's probably reason enough, and the first one I've seen that makes sense to me.

 

[PJ87]

Bear in mind that article is basically a marketing effort from a company that makes the type of DC converters that you might use instead of a 12V battery.
So they probably have a vested interest

But reading it, the one plausible reason for keeping an entirely separate 12V system that occurs to me is that if you use DC converters from the main battery for the 12V side, if it goes horribly wrong then you might get high voltage fed into the ancilliaries with potentially fatal consequences for the occupants. That's probably reason enough, and the first one I've seen that makes sense to me.

To be fair I think if it could be done safely I reckon Tesla would have done it because they love to break the mold and do things differently

Hopefully more manufacturers will follow and use lithium ones soon as they fail less