The all things EV chat thread

[Fade and Die]

I think we are only now in, or getting into the state, where 2nd hand EV is a viable option?

My Focus is on the way out, over 16 years old now ( one not so careful owner ) and while a couple of years ago I looked at Hyundai Tucson to replace it I think once it goes it will be an EV now. Going to get PJ to consult on that once we have to ;-)

It will be interesting in future to see what the 2nd hand value will be of EV cars, not really 2nd hand but 4th 5th and 6th hand, I wonder if they will still have any residual value when they are 10 years old with 100000 miles on the clock. ?

Your 16 year old focus for instance... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...nce&transmission=&year-from=2008&year-to=2008

 

[PJ87]

It will be interesting in future to see what the 2nd hand value will be of EV cars, not really 2nd hand but 4th 5th and 6th hand, I wonder if they will still have any residual value when they are 10 years old with 100000 miles on the clock. ?

Your 16 year old focus for instance... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...nce&transmission=&year-from=2008&year-to=2008

You may see less changes over time

Because they have less to go wrong people keep longer. (Plus the cost of living people keeping cars and extra year or two etc)

For example the Kia has a 7 year warranty. I only plan to replace the Kona when the salary sacrifice scheme starts because it will save me tax

Other than that I will be keeping that Kia until it stops running.

People have been keeping the 2012 leafs and just upgrading the battery (posted the video in the past) to increase the range with the 40kw batteries available now

 

[Hobbit]

It will be interesting in future to see what the 2nd hand value will be of EV cars, not really 2nd hand but 4th 5th and 6th hand, I wonder if they will still have any residual value when they are 10 years old with 100000 miles on the clock. ?

Your 16 year old focus for instance... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...nce&transmission=&year-from=2008&year-to=2008

I’ve not looked too closely at the cost of a battery pack replacement for a while but that last time I did it was prohibitive. I think Renault had some sort of exchange deal/programme to cover it.

However, most people who would buy a 7 year old car don’t have the money to throw at a battery pack, circa £5k.

 

[PJ87]

I’ve not looked too closely at the cost of a battery pack replacement for a while but that last time I did it was prohibitive. I think Renault had some sort of exchange deal/programme to cover it.

However, most people who would buy a 7 year old car don’t have the money to throw at a battery pack, circa £5k.

I think that deal was the Zoe lease deal, (like I said earlier about outdated information, not aimed at you but for example a colleague at work thought all EV batteries were leased .. no that was a batch of Zoe's for a few years which ended 5 years ago!)

Tbh it made sense because you basically rented the battery and then if they went wrong you got a new one

But the positive is the batteries have proven over time they don't need these deals because they last the life of the car

Teslas with 300,000 miles on the clock

There are Teslas on Britain's roads with over 300k miles on the clock

DVSA records show that there are over 700 Teslas on UK roads today with more than 100,000 miles on the clock - and the highest mileage example has more than three times that amount.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[bobmac]

However, most people who would buy a 7 year old car don’t have the money to throw at a battery pack, circa £5k.

If you go to buy an ICE car and the exhaust needs replacing, you factor in the price of the new exhaust and offer less money accordingly. Same with an older battery

 

[Robster59]

PJs EV Services available 365 days a year

Advice freely given (whether you want it or not! )

 

[PJ87]

Advice freely given (whether you want it or not! )

Like a popup advert!

If you go to buy an ICE car and the exhaust needs replacing, you factor in the price of the new exhaust and offer less money accordingly. Same with an older battery

I like the fact you get 8 year warranty on battery as standard, so if you do get a 7 year old car you get 1 year warranty on the battery which isn't awful position to be in

 

[bobmac]

I think that deal was the Zoe lease deal, (like I said earlier about outdated information, not aimed at you but for example a colleague at work thought all EV batteries were leased .. no that was a batch of Zoe's for a few years which ended 5 years ago!)

Tbh it made sense because you basically rented the battery and then if they went wrong you got a new one

But the positive is the batteries have proven over time they don't need these deals because they last the life of the car

Teslas with 300,000 miles on the clock

There are Teslas on Britain's roads with over 300k miles on the clock

DVSA records show that there are over 700 Teslas on UK roads today with more than 100,000 miles on the clock - and the highest mileage example has more than three times that amount.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[PJ87]

They do good videos for sure

I find this forum has been a good example of EV take up, so many now with or getting an EV next

Not everyone will have them but it's the same with everything, different things suit different people

I wouldn't go back

We do 2 long long drives a year. 1 of them I did this week

Rest of time it's 150 miles or less so easily within the range of the car (so home charging)

 

[jim8flog]

That’s true Ernie was a pioneer… but just focusing on cars, in the U.K. the amount of EV cars on the read is about 7%, that’s still very low, if, assuming we will all be in EVs one day I think it’s fair to say you are an early adopter.

Worldwide the % of EV cars on the road is even smaller.

But surely one major factor in the low adoption is cost.

I have an EV largely based up on the deal I could get, I was lucky to pick up one where the equivalent in a petrol car was only about £2-3k so the difference will be paid off in under 3years

There is always trouble with statistics like 7% of cars on the road are EVS is not knowing the basis of the stat in the first place e.g. are we comparing all cars on the road are are we comparing cars bought in the last 3,5 7 years etc.

If all cars, cars have been on the road since 1886, are steam powered ones for example in the statistics, so naturally there are going to be a lot more of them than EVS.

 

[larmen]

It will be interesting in future to see what the 2nd hand value will be of EV cars, not really 2nd hand but 4th 5th and 6th hand, I wonder if they will still have any residual value when they are 10 years old with 100000 miles on the clock. ?

Your 16 year old focus for instance... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...nce&transmission=&year-from=2008&year-to=2008

But mine only has 37000 miles.

I don’t drive a lot, it is a convenience thin.

We just did London to Weymouth, biggest mile of the year to date. When we go back we doubled what we did for the year to date.

But we need a car to go shopping, getting the little one around, … the regular short and the odd thing.

Ideal EV conditions for the drives, but we won’t get the saving in petrol/electricity.
That’s why we drive the Ford to its end. Luckily it got ULEZ

 

[PJ87]

But mine only has 37000 miles.

I don’t drive a lot, it is a convenience thin.

We just did London to Weymouth, biggest mile of the year to date. When we go back we doubled what we did for the year to date.

But we need a car to go shopping, getting the little one around, … the regular short and the odd thing.

Ideal EV conditions for the drives, but we won’t get the saving in petrol/electricity.
That’s why we drive the Ford to its end. Luckily it got ULEZ

If you have solar (which you have) I'd fully recommend a zappi as a home charger .. they are the best home chargers on the market

I have an ohme which would be my second recommendation

Zappi can divert your excess solar into the car if installed correctly

 

[cliveb]

Tesla is an entirely EV brand that went mainstream in 2012 with the model s
Now 12 years later you have 4 models of car. Over 200,000 cars in the UK alone are Teslas

And after 12 years the Model S is still the only Tesla that isn't ugly as sin.
Who the hell are they employing in their design department?

 

[PJ87]

And after 12 years the Model S is still the only Tesla that isn't ugly as sin.
Who the hell are they employing in their design department?

I think that's subjective , but lots of people find modern cars ugly full stop

The model 3 when I first saw I hated but now I think it's ok

Model y the same

Model x is something out of captain scarlet

 

[cliveb]

I think that deal was the Zoe lease deal, (like I said earlier about outdated information, not aimed at you but for example a colleague at work thought all EV batteries were leased .. no that was a batch of Zoe's for a few years which ended 5 years ago!)

Tbh it made sense because you basically rented the battery and then if they went wrong you got a new one

No, it never made sense.
The lease cost was stupid expensive. Minimum lease was ~£45 a month, and you were limited to (IIRC) 5000 miles a year.
So basically they were charging you 10p a mile to have a battery, before you'd even paid for the electricity to charge it.
Made absolutely no economic sense at all.

 

[PJ87]

No, it never made sense.
The lease cost was stupid expensive. Minimum lease was ~£45 a month, and you were limited to (IIRC) 5000 miles a year.
So basically they were charging you 10p a mile to have a battery, before you'd even paid for the electricity to charge it.
Made absolutely no economic sense at all.

To be fair Clive does anything make economic sense to you?

It was literally to pacify people who were worried about the battery

Like £200 a year extended warranty, people buy it for peace of mind not economics

 

[cliveb]

To be fair Clive does anything make economic sense to you?

Plenty does.
But I haven't drunk enough of the KoolAid to blindly believe that everything to do with EVs, solar and batteries does.

It was literally to pacify people who were worried about the battery
Like £200 a year extended warranty, people buy it for peace of mind not economics

OK if that's what it was for.
I can tell you that isn't how I viewed it.
I was actually on the verge of buying a secondhand Zoe back in 2018 (see, I'm not totally anti-EV the way you think I am).
That was, until I found out about the battery lease requirement.
The lease by itself was going to cost more than I spent on petrol

 

[PJ87]

Plenty does.
But I haven't drunk enough of the KoolAid to blindly believe that everything to do with EVs, solar and batteries does.

OK if that's what it was for.
I can tell you that isn't how I viewed it.
I was actually on the verge of buying a secondhand Zoe back in 2018 (see, I'm not totally anti-EV the way you think I am).
That was, until I found out about the battery lease requirement.
The lease by itself was going to cost more than I spent on petrol

I'm surprised with all your number crunching you haven't looked into leasing considering you only pay for depreciation and if you try to buy at end of your lease you can get a bargain saving many £1000s of the list price

Lease companies just auction the cars off, they are pretty open to deals .. especially "hot deals" leases which are really cheap offers.

Would save a fortune

 

[cliveb]

I'm surprised with all your number crunching you haven't looked into leasing considering you only pay for depreciation and if you try to buy at end of your lease you can get a bargain saving many £1000s of the list price

Lease companies just auction the cars off, they are pretty open to deals .. especially "hot deals" leases which are really cheap offers.

Would save a fortune

What makes you think I haven't looked into leasing?

When you lease, you pay for the early years depreciation over and over, never enjoying the years of use with minimal depreciation that you get from keeping a car for a decade or more.

I don't buy new cars. Let some other sucker absorb the initial hit.

 

[jim8flog]

that you get from keeping a car for a decade or more.

That would be a novelty for me to some extent. Last time I got that close I realised I had lost so much capital to put towards another car that I never did it again.
For me the way to go was to buy one year old or pregistered, the latter being what I did this time.

A couple of good deals in the last 20 years have been ex fleet at around 50% of the new price. They are usually above average mileage but by the time I sell them they are lower than average mileage.