The all things EV chat thread

[Billysboots]

Is it time to shut this thread as it is no longer what it started out as? We all know who would (or has) bought an EV and who won’t and now it is just an ongoing repeat between certain parties who will never change their minds. It is resorting to petty name calling and trying to score points against the other view and is not constructive anymore.

There are other threads on the boards comprising two camps with firmly entrenched views - LIV immediately springs to mind.

But the constant back and forth between those camps, whilst doubtless irritating to some at times, remains largely within forum rules and is enjoyed by those making the contributions. It’s hardly fair to start closing threads because those in neither camp are tired of the circular debate.

My suggestion to anyone who finds any thread tiresome is to do as I do - simply don’t read it. And if you do read and find something you think breaches forum guidelines please use the report function and let the mods review and deal as required.

 

[Hobbit]

To be fair to Phil he isn't the worst and doesn't post this often in here. But yes we have some that do.

I'm not innocent im firmly in the opposite camp.

Whilst I think there’s two schools of thought, there’s new insights being posted up every day in support of either case. Yeah, sometimes it gets a bit lively, occasionally a bit sharp too but isn’t that the way of passionate arguments. Providing it doesn’t become offensive, crack on.

 

[Jimaroid]

Hence why the lords have even come out and said the media are doing anti EV articles based on false information and it needs to stop.

Your own selective bias is hypocrisy when accusing others of selective bias. Think more. Type less.

The climate change committee is recommending lots more than what the BBC singled out in their headline. I.e. It’s the exact same partisan and biased media reportage your objecting too. But you’ve conveniently ignored that because it happens to fit your view.

The full Climate Change Committee EV strategy report looks like interesting reading and makes a lot of good recommendations. I’ll read it later but not today.

 

[PJ87]

Your own selective bias is hypocrisy when accusing others of selective bias. Think more. Type less.

The climate change committee is recommending lots more than what the BBC singled out in their headline. I.e. It’s the exact same partisan and biased media reportage your objecting too. But you’ve conveniently ignored that because it happens to fit your view.

The full Climate Change Committee EV strategy report looks like interesting reading and makes a lot of good recommendations. I’ll read it later but not today.

I have read it thanks.

However it still has a very good point that there is a campaign against EVs from the media and it is a big reason why some people won't buy EVs.

The fire claim for example so damaging but completely unfounded.

On this thread alone we have had a few posters make it. One even said their friend won't keep their EV in their garage incase. So an unfounded claim has influenced a normal user of a car to alter their usage based on misinformation.

I don't feel I am that bias tbh because i have owned both ice cars and EVs , I have only recently (Monday) gone 2 EV. So I can give a completely fair opinion on what I believe is the better fuel choice for My needs.

I don't slate petrol cars as the devil and should be banned from the road, unsafe or useless.

 

[Jimaroid]

I don't feel I am that bias

That is possibly the most ridiculous and least self aware statement you’ve ever made.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[PNWokingham]

The market share dropped a whopping 0.1%

That's hardly worth writing home about but the spin is it's big bad news and EVs are awful

Standard. Expect nothing less from the telegraph

you bash any newspaper in middle spectrum (unless the Guardian it does not have ethics) - better to focus on the facts - and all that i raised was that fact of falling ownership at a time when government plans (and associated manafaturer penalties) would necessitate a continual large increase yeare-on-year.

To me it highlights very big problems with the governments opbjectives and the dilema for car makers if this negative or even flat or mildy positive trend contimues. You cannot force a product on the public through penalising the businesses if the product is not wanted - that is a lose lose. At the moment electric cars are great for some people but the business, economic and convenience case does not work for many. Personally i am in the latter category and while i live in a flat with no charging that will stay the case, especially while public charging is the level of petrol/ diesel prices. It works for you clearly and that is fine - after reading your extensive and in-depth vlogs of your cars, charging useage, costs etc etc it is clear that they are perfect for you and i would probably do the same in your situation. But you cannot bash other peoples views or the reality that all is not rosy in the adoption of electric vehicles and indeeed the whole green revolution and that a complimentary strategy is needed for the foreseeable futuure.

With regards to cars, if what i read about Toyota's solid-state batteries (700 mile range, 10 minute charging and several times the longeivity of the batteries), that will be an absolute game chager, assuming of course that the charging network advances at a similar pace. And that the inequity of costs of charging between those with home chargers and public networks is a lot closer. Lost taxation revenues from petrol will have to be rerouted via road charging

 

[PJ87]

That is possibly the most ridiculous and least self aware statement you’ve ever made.

Thanks for the laugh.

Ok then, glad to assist you.

However considering I've had both techs unlike a lot of the negative posters on this thread I'd say people like

Bob, mudball and myself can give much more insight and feedback than others.

At least I try and offer advise to those who struggle at first rather than just say

"Yeah this is why I won't get one"

Proper productive

 

[PJ87]

you bash any newspaper in middle spectrum (unless the Guardian it does not have ethics) - better to focus on the facts - and all that i raised was that fact of falling ownership at a time when government plans (and associated manafaturer penalties) would necessitate a continual large increase yeare-on-year.

To me it highlights very big problems with the governments opbjectives and the dilema for car makers if this negative or even flat or mildy positive trend contimues. You cannot force a product on the public through penalising the businesses if the product is not wanted - that is a lose lose. At the moment electric cars are great for some people but the business, economic and convenience case does not work for many. Personally i am in the latter category and while i live in a flat with no charging that will stay the case, especially while public charging is the level of petrol/ diesel prices. It works for you clearly and that is fine - after reading your extensive and in-depth vlogs of your cars, charging useage, costs etc etc it is clear that they are perfect for you and i would probably do the same in your situation. But you cannot bash other peoples views or the reality that all is not rosy in the adoption of electric vehicles and indeeed the whole green revolution and that a complimentary strategy is needed for the foreseeable futuure.

With regards to cars, if what i read about Toyota's solid-state batteries (700 mile range, 10 minute charging and several times the longeivity of the batteries), that will be an absolute game chager, assuming of course that the charging network advances at a similar pace. And that the inequity of costs of charging between those with home chargers and public networks is a lot closer. Lost taxation revenues from petrol will have to be rerouted via road charging

I would love to see the battery's arrive. It would be amazing for the user and the market

Only issue is these batteries have been "coming" as long as hydrogen cars

Their so close etc

I really hope they arrive! Sooner rather than later

Quick add, you can force things on the public through taxes, it's happend in the past and will continue to happen. It's just the way of the world.

Ulez and other low emission schemes have forced a lot of older diesels off the road

 

[PNWokingham]

I have read it thanks.

However it still has a very good point that there is a campaign against EVs from the media and it is a big reason why some people won't buy EVs.

The fire claim for example so damaging but completely unfounded.

On this thread alone we have had a few posters make it. One even said their friend won't keep their EV in their garage incase. So an unfounded claim has influenced a normal user of a car to alter their usage based on misinformation.

I don't feel I am that bias tbh because i have owned both ice cars and EVs , I have only recently (Monday) gone 2 EV. So I can give a completely fair opinion on what I believe is the better fuel choice for My needs.

I don't slate petrol cars as the devil and should be banned from the road, unsafe or useless.

just one point - not sure how owning ICE and electric is a justification for no bias - everyone (bar a few recent millenials possibly) have owned ice as that was the only choice until recent years

We need to support adaoption of the new technology and i agree with your point on making car parks and all new homes adopt chargers but i don't like the 20230 or now 2035 rules about banning ICE vehicles by X date when the technology and infrastructure is where it is. Car makers will adapt themselves if the technology makes sense - ie the public want it - just like they did when the iPhone arrived - Nokia and Blackberry ignored the trend but the others jumped on it. If the solid state tech is as it is being advertised in circa 2028 that will transorm everything. But similarly, we could have had a nice, more emotive ICE industry run alongside that for the foreseeable future as long as market dynamic were favourable and people wanted the product. Kack-handed centralised rule making and planning his done no side any favours. Sae rules apply on net zero generally - the tech is there, is improving yera-on-year and will inevtably create adaption without being forced on us, not least financially.

 

[PJ87]

just one point - not sure how owning ICE and electric is a justification for no bias - everyone (bar a few recent millenials possibly) have owned ice as that was the only choice until recent years

We need to support adaoption of the new technology and i agree with your point on making car parks and all new homes adopt chargers but i don't like the 20230 or now 2035 rules about banning ICE vehicles by X date when the technology and infrastructure is where it is. Car makers will adapt themselves if the technology makes sense - ie the public want it - just like they did when the iPhone arrived - Nokia and Blackberry ignored the trend but the others jumped on it. If the solid state tech is as it is being advertised in circa 2028 that will transorm everything. But similarly, we could have had a nice, more emotive ICE industry run alongside that for the foreseeable future as long as market dynamic were favourable and people wanted the product. Kack-handed centralised rule making and planning his done no side any favours. Sae rules apply on net zero generally - the tech is there, is improving yera-on-year and will inevtably create adaption without being forced on us, not least financially.

I'm not sure how I feel about the ban if I'm honest with you. On the one hand I support environmental causes. I've become a bit of a green warrior since the kids. The way I understood the ban was it forced manufacturers to actually push the new tech forward, for example the big players like BMW had been holding back on ev because they didn't need to do it. Who's going to cost themselves money to do the right thing as a business?

Pushing it back the industry didn't like because they had set for EV and adopting new tech then pushing back didn't help them. (Apparently ford said this recently)

It's interesting to see how it all unfolds

I do agree with subsidiary from gov to help with adoption

Heat pumps for example , not getting into the debate on them being good or not. But the grant you get to basically make them the same cost for the customer to install as a new boiler makes perfect sense to me. To get us nearer net zero

But In that situation I am bias because I'm trying to set myself up for complete electric household .. with low emissions as I can.

That said I have nothing against ice cars. They are perfect for some but I will say it's a same profit has been put before the planet and tbh hybrids have been around decades. It's a shame more manufacturers didn't do a Volvo and say right all our cars from this date are hybrids.

My Kia niro for example you have 3 options , hybrid , plug in hybrid or full EV .. there is no option for just a petrol engine

 

[Jimaroid]

At least I try and offer advise to those who struggle at first rather than just say

"Yeah this is why I won't get one"

Proper productive

Strange interpretation of productivity. Are you confusing activity with productivity? It’s a common mistake.

Again I’ll question self awareness here. There’s a difference between helping people and telling people, there seems to be a lot of the latter and less of the former.

 

[PJ87]

Strange interpretation of productivity. Are you confusing activity with productivity? It’s a common mistake.

Again I’ll question self awareness here. There’s a difference between helping people and telling people, there seems to be a lot of the latter and less of the former.

Feel free to ask mudball. I've offered him lots of help privately with his EV charging issue.

I'd rather offer advise than stay silent and watch people struggle

Can't see how that's a bad thing but obviously you feel different

 

[Jimaroid]

I'd rather offer advise than stay silent and watch people struggle

Can't see how that's a bad thing but obviously you feel different

Silence can be powerful. You should try it more often.

 

[PJ87]

Silence can be powerful. You should try it more often.

With all due respect as I said before I'd rather one person find my post useful than not post just to keep the forum cliques happy.

Feel free to get rattled by it. Your opinion means as much to me as the sun newspaper.

 

[Jimaroid]

With all due respect as I said before I'd rather one person find my post useful than not post just to keep the forum cliques happy.

Feel free to get rattled by it. Your opinion means as much to me as the sun newspaper.

Showing your colours again and grasping to blame others when your own behaviour is in question. Unhelpful.

If you’re genuine in your desire to help (and I believe you are) it’s always good to listen and accept feedback. You can’t have the last word on everything, think about that.

 

[PJ87]

Showing your colours again and grasping to blame others when your own behaviour is in question. Unhelpful.

If you’re genuine in your desire to help (and I believe you are) it’s always good to listen and accept feedback. You can’t have the last word on everything, think about that.

Whilst I accept feedback there is a line between feedback and genuine unpleasant behaviour

So far today you have attacked my self awareness, asked me to post less and said silence for me is better.

Now whilst I may post too much in your opinion can you not see through your own self awareness that your behaviour today has been across the line and not really pleasant?

 

[Robster59]

Is it just me or is this thread being used as a place for 3-4 people to have a go at each other?

 

[PJ87]

Is it just me or is this thread being used as a place for 3-4 people to have a go at each other?

To be fair it's like the Liv thread. Anyone who's positive on the subject gets shouted down by some posters over and over.

 

[Billysboots]

I know I said earlier this thread won’t be closed. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be locked temporarily to allow everyone to take a step back and chill out a little. And that it exactly what I am now going to do.

When it is re-opened, kindly stick to the subject matter and leave the personal stuff out of it please.

 

[PJ87]

I start to become a fan of Electrifying. Imagine car reviews without shouting and grunting.

Today they look at 1 y/o cars with 10000 miles. Maybe I can get into EVs quite soon

The Kona is on their list ;-)

I watched this yesterday, brilliant bargains to be had.

What stood out most is what actions Scotland are doing to encourage switching to ev

Up to 30k loan interest free to get an EV. Now with used prices so low ATM that's a very good offer.

I just don't get why England don't follow suit? It isn't a money loser because you get the money back you just don't make interest on the loans. Why not offer that to help people into cars rather than not?

Well done Scotland