The all things EV chat thread

[ColchesterFC]

Yes, until people start to twig that their new EV is going to lose half to three quarters of it's value in 3 years, then there won't be a secondhand market.

Wouldn't that affect new sales and bolster the second hand market? I've got no idea, but it seems logical to me that if you can buy a two year old car for half the price of a new one, in many cases with three to five years of the warranty left, you'd have to be mad to buy new. There can't be many people in the country that can afford to pay £50-60k for a new car and are also happy to watch it lose £1000 a month in depreciation alone.

 

[PJ87]

Wouldn't that affect new sales and bolster the second hand market? I've got no idea, but it seems logical to me that if you can buy a two year old car for half the price of a new one, in many cases with three to five years of the warranty left, you'd have to be mad to buy new. There can't be many people in the country that can afford to pay £50-60k for a new car and are also happy to watch it lose £1000 a month in depreciation alone.

Considering how many % of sales have to be ev (coming in soon) companies will heavily discount EVs to meet this quote

Toyota for example hadn't sold many of their new EV but bought a load and pre registered them. Some good deals about on them

Then you have all the salary sacrifice schemes for EVs that have been approved meaning leasing them is tax efficient

It's really not the doom and gloom that the daily mail would have people believe

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There are 3 issues with EV, cost, range, recharging. Range is becoming less of an issue but it is still there.

Hydrogen removes the issue of range and recharging, I think costs are lower, but clearly there are other issues. Stress for the owners disappear though, very attractive sounding.

I don't think setting up a hydrogen refuelling network would be a problem. They would simply integrate with the existing fuel station network.

Saying all of the above, I don't know enough about the problems of hydrogen but having seen TV examples of people using them, I suspect people would transition to them far quicker and happier than to electric. They just aren't a real option yet.

 

[PJ87]

I’ve always been against EV cars because of range but on reflection it isn’t a valid argument. I’ve had motorbikes most of my adult life and their range has, in some cases, been less than an EV. However, EV still doesn’t quite tick the box for me for long journeys because of the charge time - I don’t fancy sitting in a motorway service station for excessive amounts of time waiting for it to charge up.

What happens when I get to my destination? I go looking for a convenient charging point, which in all probability won’t be just around the corner from where I’m visiting/staying.

And as I posted up previously, the come quick phone call which comes in when the car needs charging. Having had a couple of those calls, necessitating a 140 journey made at high speeds (wasn’t me officer) that would gobble up the charge, they still don’t tick the box.

Some, like Paul, Mudball & Bobmac, are happy with them. EV’s have ticked the box for them, just like some people want big cars, diesel, petrol, soft top etc - each to their own and good luck to them. But the criteria I set out isn’t matched by what an EV could deliver for me.

Sort out charging time and it doesn’t become an issue. Even the location of charging points is negated by a 10min full charge time - let’s be honest, who has a petrol station on their drive. Location doesn’t matter if you can pull in, fill up and be on your way.

I think what is also key is that home charging is kept as a thing regardless of new tech

Say we one day get 500 miles to a charge and 15 mins to charge which imo would be fine , you would want as many people as possible charging at home to keep the "pumps" as empty as possible for those that need them

 

[PJ87]

There are 3 issues with EV, cost, range, recharging. Range is becoming less of an issue but it is still there.

Hydrogen removes the issue of range and recharging, I think costs are lower, but clearly there are other issues. Stress for the owners disappear though, very attractive sounding.

I don't think setting up a hydrogen refuelling network would be a problem. They would simply integrate with the existing fuel station network.

Saying all of the above, I don't know enough about the problems of hydrogen but having seen TV examples of people using them, I suspect people would transition to them far quicker and happier than to electric. They just aren't a real option yet.

I'd argue cost is becoming much less of a factor, I'm delighted with the price I paid for the wife's car

I found a 2 year old leaf on auto trader.. 1200 miles done ... 15k.. now that's an actual bargain

Plenty of older EVs about around the 10k mark that would suit people aswell

 

[SteveJay]

This is one of my favourite ridiculous comments .. so battery warranty is 8 years "what they only last 8 years??" No .. your car warranty is 3 years do they stop working after then? Don't be so utterly ridiculous

Their not for everyone but say they could work for 70% of the population wouldn't it be great if even 50% of the population could reduce emissions by using one.

I get that, but if my car goes wrong in year 4, I am looking at replacing a component, which could be anything from under £100 to several thousand. If a battery goes wrong in year 9, are you not looking at a replacement costing almost as much as the depreciated value of the EV by then?

I don't know, but can batteries be repaired at a more modest cost rather than be replaced?

 

[PJ87]

I get that, but if my car goes wrong in year 4, I am looking at replacing a component, which could be anything from under £100 to several thousand. If a battery goes wrong in year 9, are you not looking at a replacement costing almost as much as the depreciated value of the EV by then?

I don't know, but can batteries be repaired at a more modest cost rather than be replaced?

Yes they can, there are more and more companies offering replacement batteries

MK1 leafs owners have been having MK2 leaf batteries (that have been written off) installed in their cars for a while now (to increase their range rather than their failed) there batteries have then become house batteries

We have EVs on the market that are over 10 years old still on original batteries fine , you just only hear about the ones that fail because the media love a none story

Quick add. All those parts for ice cars the EVs have a lot less parts to go wrong compared

Every car choice I've made in my life I've been put off by those "in the know"

Diesels cost a lot more to fix , petrols are easier (my mechanic)

Diesels cost more to run (parents)

Hybrids you will need to replace the battery (my parents hybrid is 15 years old on original battery)

EVs are useless (the media / petrol heads)

 

[bobmac]

Just remember the next time you stand out in the cold filling your ICE vehicle, you are paying Jeremy Hunt about 90p-£1 tax per litre.

There is currently no VAT on most solar panels and batteries

 

[Whereditgo]

I get that, but if my car goes wrong in year 4, I am looking at replacing a component, which could be anything from under £100 to several thousand. If a battery goes wrong in year 9, are you not looking at a replacement costing almost as much as the depreciated value of the EV by then?

I don't know, but can batteries be repaired at a more modest cost rather than be replaced?

We had a 5 1/2 year old mini countryman hybrid with 66,000 miles on it and it developed an intermittent drive train warning and drop off in range, the main dealer quoted the repair would be between £5k and £11k depending on what they found when they did a full investigation, we chopped it in (with a dealer that was unaware of the problem ) against a new ICE cooper and got £12k part ex for it. Battery warranty was 60,000 miles or 6 years.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'd argue cost is becoming much less of a factor, I'm delighted with the price I paid for the wife's car

I found a 2 year old leaf on auto trader.. 1200 miles done ... 15k.. now that's an actual bargain

Plenty of older EVs about around the 10k mark that would suit people aswell

Terrible, or great depending on whether you are buying or selling, second hand prices don't hide the price new. It may also impact the new market if people see the price drop for when they come to sell. I get what you are saying, now is probably the optimum time to buy a second hand EV.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I get that, but if my car goes wrong in year 4, I am looking at replacing a component, which could be anything from under £100 to several thousand. If a battery goes wrong in year 9, are you not looking at a replacement costing almost as much as the depreciated value of the EV by then?

I don't know, but can batteries be repaired at a more modest cost rather than be replaced?

And that is no different to an ICE if the engine goes pop. Happens all the time when old timing belts and chains slip/snap.

 

[D-S]

Just remember the next time you stand out in the cold filling your ICE vehicle, you are paying Jeremy Hunt about 90p-£1 tax per litre.

There is currently no VAT on most solar panels and batteries

So it’s actually not the petrol that’s expensive, it is the tax.
When EVs are in the majority the government will have to replace this tax take somehow and will likely tax EV car ownership or EV mileage or electricity accordingly as it will be impossible to just double/treble/quadruple the remaining ICE vehicles taxation.
EV motoring will not, in due course, be cheaper than ICE today. If you ignore the increased cost of EVs and higher insurance this is probably the cheapest era for running an EV.

 

[cliveb]

In the context of road haulage, weight is the crucial factor. An HGV does about 8mpg. Diesel weighs about 4kg per gallon. So for a 1000 mile range, it needs about 500kg of fuel.

If we assume an electric HGV will have a similar efficiency as an electric car, it will do about 0.5 miles per kWh. At current energy densities, a 1000 mile range will require about 6000kg of batteries. That's 6 tons of cargo it can't carry. Not going to happen.

Hydrogen is about 3 times more energy dense than diesel, and a fuel cell is more efficient than an ICE. So a 1000 mile range will require about 150kg of fuel. A haulage firm would be much more interested in that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just remember the next time you stand out in the cold filling your ICE vehicle, you are paying Jeremy Hunt about 90p-£1 tax per litre.

There is currently no VAT on most solar panels and batteries

Is there not VAT on Electricity

How much extra does it cost to add in Solar Panels to the house ?

When do you think they will start to add further taxes onto electric cars to make up the hole


The good news about thinking when filling up the ICE car is it’s over in minutes, you could have a really long 3 hour think whilst waiting for your EV car to charge

 

[PJ87]

Is there not VAT on Electricity

How much extra does it cost to add in Solar Panels to the house ?

When do you think they will start to add further taxes onto electric cars to make up the hole


The good news about thinking when filling up the ICE car is it’s over in minutes, you could have a really long 3 hour think whilst waiting for your EV car to charge

Nothing. Solar panel vat been 0% for 2 years.

That 3 hour wait I'm either sleeping, working or like now. Playing golf

As with most EV drivers we plan around what we doing rather than making a pit stop

 

[jim8flog]

The good news about thinking when filling up the ICE car is it’s over in minutes, you could have a really long 3 hour think whilst waiting for your EV car to charge

For me that comes in to my journey planning.

I make the same two stops on the journey I do to my sons as I did when driving a petrol car. Part charge at each stop whilst I take a break from driving have a comfort break and a cup of coffee and a snack. Probably added about 10 minutes to each stop compared to using the petrol car.

One big advantage - I found a Greggs at one stop I did not know about previously as it is opposite the charge points.

 

[GB72]

There is where I have the issue. I do not like to stop. Once I am on the road I like to hammer it all the way until I get there but that, I appreciate, is just me. I also really do not plan journeys. I get in the car, put the sat nav on and go. Again, my issue not one so much with EVs in general.

What I do agree with is that tax will become an issue. At present, it is not politically savvy to tax heavily on something that forms part of many green policies but that cannot last. Once there is a clear replacement for petrol and petrol tax revenues drop, that replacement will be taxed into the ground. I suspect we will all be taxed per mile by then.

The cost of the vehicle will still always be an issue for me. Whilst I can get a low mileage ICE car that suits my needs with a decent spec for under 10k, I am not going to spend the same or more than that on tiny little runabout just because it is electric.

 

[bobmac]

Is there not VAT on Electricity

Not if you create your own.

How much extra does it cost to add in Solar Panels to the house ?

I think everyone knows you have to pay for your solar panels but the price is continually falling (unlike gas and electric) and you only buy them once.

When do you think they will start to add further taxes onto electric cars to make up the hole

A large part of that hole could be filled when the powers that be stop subsidizing fossil fuel companies who already make obscene profits

The good news about thinking when filling up the ICE car is it’s over in minutes, you could have a really long 3 hour think whilst waiting for your EV car to charge

Or maybe a 20 minute stop for a spot of lunch, stretch your legs and use the facilities.

Buy what you want

 

[PNWokingham]

Not if you create your own.

I think everyone knows you have to pay for your solar panels but the price is continually falling (unlike gas and electric) and you only buy them once.

A large part of that hole could be filled when the powers that be stop subsidizing fossil fuel companies who already make obscene profits

Or maybe a 20 minute stop for a spot of lunch, stretch your legs and use the facilities.

Buy what you want what subsidies are the government giving fossil fuel companies?

Not if you create your own.

I think everyone knows you have to pay for your solar panels but the price is continually falling (unlike gas and electric) and you only buy them once.

A large part of that hole could be filled when the powers that be stop subsidizing fossil fuel companies who already make obscene profits

Or maybe a 20 minute stop for a spot of lunch, stretch your legs and use the facilities.

Buy what you want

What subsidies are the government giving fossil fuel companies??

 

[PJ87]

What subsidies are the government giving fossil fuel companies??

Lots. The fact that electric is charged at the same formula regardless helps the gas companies. wind and solar costs have fallen