The all things EV chat thread
- Thread starter need_my_wedge
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PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Because one 1.6t car is deemed better for the environment than the other and most things are emissions based to encourage switching to the new tech to reduce said emissions
Much like hybrids used to be free for the London congestion charge. Then every private hire was a Prius, then it changed to plug ins , then electric (which ends in 25) so now most private hires are EVs
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes I get the emission based duty’s.
But if your going to charge by weight then why are EVs given a higher limit.?
This is going to be the new road tax ( excise duty) of the future imo.
In New York car parks have been refusing EVs because there have been a few collapses with the weight of them.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
It will indeed just the same as petrol and diesel are going to be taxed more and more as EVs or hydrogen take over to make them less and less affordable to "encourage" people to switch
Just how EVs have been cheaper in Bik tax for company cars for ages.
Parking in London boroughs now is cheaper in my EV than in my old diesel car
It's how the world is going
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes I know your correct.
But a big downside of EVs is the weight.
So if you’re going to charge on weight then you can’t just dismiss this obvious downside!
weight damages roads not emissions so I question the logic.
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
Hertz pauses plans to buy electric vehicles from Polestar this year
Decision by car rental group comes as resale value of EVs has collapsed
EV resale values
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
I saw the hydrogen article the other day, it’s also funny how JCB went straight to hydro as it was more powerful with less weight. I can’t help but feel that the hydrogen is going to be another LPG cycle.
I spoke with a few Tesla owners last week, one who has a very structured lifestyle with short trips to/from/for work and suffers no range anxiety.
The other has a very reactive work style and is suffering hugely with range issues and has even had to cancel meetings.
Proof EV doesn’t suit all.
I spoke with a few Tesla owners last week, one who has a very structured lifestyle with short trips to/from/for work and suffers no range anxiety.
The other has a very reactive work style and is suffering hugely with range issues and has even had to cancel meetings.
Proof EV doesn’t suit all.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Let's watch this space. BMW have had "hydrogen ready" for a decade almost. It's not the cars that aren't there it's the storage of it safely in the pumps etc
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Hertz pauses plans to buy electric vehicles from Polestar this year
Decision by car rental group comes as resale value of EVs has collapsedwww.ft.com
EV resale values
Great for the second hand market. Wife's Kona cost me 15k, was 37k brand new it's only 3 years old
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
Yes, until people start to twig that their new EV is going to lose half to three quarters of it's value in 3 years, then there won't be a secondhand market.
I'm not against change or EV's.
But after spending lifetime in professional vehicle engineering & seeing many changes through the years tells me that EV'S in their present form are not viable.
Indeed, they are a stepping stone to the next technology.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
They will be around for a long time yet. Whilst for some they will be a step for a lot of people once in they suit and last a fair time just doing the weekly milage
My battery could degrade by half and I could still do my work and back twice so would still be fine for many many years
doublebogey7
Head Pro
The automotive industry has been looking at how petrol/diesel vehicles could be superceded for at least the last forty years. I very much doubt that it will come up with a better alternative than electric in the next 40, though I do think there will improvements in battery range and charge times.
Hydrogen is no nearer the answer than it was when the industry started out in this quest.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Hydrogen is regarded by so many as the savour for ice users but the same issues EVs have faced hydrogen faces. Costs.. the cars are more than EVs .."EVs catch fire" hydrogen is litterally a bomb. But people happily ignore these but in the same breath peddle EVs as unsafe and unaffordable.
This is one of my favourite ridiculous comments .. so battery warranty is 8 years "what they only last 8 years??" No .. your car warranty is 3 years do they stop working after then? Don't be so utterly ridiculous
Their not for everyone but say they could work for 70% of the population wouldn't it be great if even 50% of the population could reduce emissions by using one.
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cliveb
Head Pro
That's the second time I've seen you make that statement, and it needs challenging.
In what context do you think hydrogen a bomb?
If you take a pressurised cylinder of pure hydrogen and shoot it with an armour piercing tracer bullet, it doesn't explode. All that happens is that a small hydrogen flame burns out of the hole. This is way less dangerous than a ruptured petrol tank, and we've been happily using petrol tanks in cars for over a century. And a pressurised hydrogen cylinder is way more robust than a petrol tank.
BTW, I'm not advocating for hydrogen cars. Establishing the necessary refuelling infrastructure is a far bigger challenge than for EVs, and of course you can't refuel a hydrogen car at home. Perhaps hydrogen is a valid option for long range transport that can be refuelled at central hubs (eg. road haulage). But for private cars? I doubt it.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Wasn't this the entire issue with hygroden? Because it is so dangerous and unpredictable storing it was why it hasn't just taken off because the tech has been there for 15 years engine wise....
I agree on the last point
it's not the future for private cars but the big transport it's a great solutioncliveb
Head Pro
I don't think so. Safety isn't really the issue. The big problems are distribution to thousands of filling stations, equipping said filling stations with safe storage, and the fact that hydrogen production is either incredibly environmentally damaging (brown hydrogen) or incredibly inefficient (green hydrogen).
bobmac
Major Champion
So people complain about EVs being too expensive. Then they complain about EVs losing their value, making them cheaper and more affordable. Which is it ?
Hydrogen
So many problems regarding where it's made, storage, cost, transportation, availability (currently 1 for sale on Autotrader) and although they may be fast to refill, it may take you a while to find a garage that sells hydrogen.
Not too many in the midlands .....one.
But my main concern is why make electricity and use it to separate Hydrogen and Oxygen so you can use the Hydrogen in a car to make electricity to power the car?
Bonkers mental
Hydrogen
So many problems regarding where it's made, storage, cost, transportation, availability (currently 1 for sale on Autotrader) and although they may be fast to refill, it may take you a while to find a garage that sells hydrogen.
Not too many in the midlands .....one.
But my main concern is why make electricity and use it to separate Hydrogen and Oxygen so you can use the Hydrogen in a car to make electricity to power the car?
Bonkers mental
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Don't get me wrong I think hydrogen has it's place and will say be for hgvs and people who need to travel distance
But say your bog standard EV starts at 30k in the future and does 300 miles , hydrogen cars will be for longer drivers and prob will end up say 40k . I mean ATM there starting at ,50k I believe ..
But the point is they will be priced for those who need rather than the masses , in reality a mix of both works and EVs work for a lot more people than people realise
I’ve always been against EV cars because of range but on reflection it isn’t a valid argument. I’ve had motorbikes most of my adult life and their range has, in some cases, been less than an EV. However, EV still doesn’t quite tick the box for me for long journeys because of the charge time - I don’t fancy sitting in a motorway service station for excessive amounts of time waiting for it to charge up.
What happens when I get to my destination? I go looking for a convenient charging point, which in all probability won’t be just around the corner from where I’m visiting/staying.
And as I posted up previously, the come quick phone call which comes in when the car needs charging. Having had a couple of those calls, necessitating a 140 journey made at high speeds (wasn’t me officer) that would gobble up the charge, they still don’t tick the box.
Some, like Paul, Mudball & Bobmac, are happy with them. EV’s have ticked the box for them, just like some people want big cars, diesel, petrol, soft top etc - each to their own and good luck to them. But the criteria I set out isn’t matched by what an EV could deliver for me.
Sort out charging time and it doesn’t become an issue. Even the location of charging points is negated by a 10min full charge time - let’s be honest, who has a petrol station on their drive. Location doesn’t matter if you can pull in, fill up and be on your way.
What happens when I get to my destination? I go looking for a convenient charging point, which in all probability won’t be just around the corner from where I’m visiting/staying.
And as I posted up previously, the come quick phone call which comes in when the car needs charging. Having had a couple of those calls, necessitating a 140 journey made at high speeds (wasn’t me officer) that would gobble up the charge, they still don’t tick the box.
Some, like Paul, Mudball & Bobmac, are happy with them. EV’s have ticked the box for them, just like some people want big cars, diesel, petrol, soft top etc - each to their own and good luck to them. But the criteria I set out isn’t matched by what an EV could deliver for me.
Sort out charging time and it doesn’t become an issue. Even the location of charging points is negated by a 10min full charge time - let’s be honest, who has a petrol station on their drive. Location doesn’t matter if you can pull in, fill up and be on your way.
