The all things EV chat thread

[PJ87]

Perhaps some EV owners here will let us know.
AFAICT, there are no public chargers that are less than 20p/kWh, and the current (soon to be increased) cap for domestic is 21p/kWh.
Only those with Economy 7 or that special Octopus tariff are going to get it for less.

I tried to compare like-for-like, and the three that I found were Peugeot 2008, VW Up and Mini. All were at least 10 grand more for the electric version.
I accept that maintenance might be a bit less for electric - far fewer moving parts.
Again, perhaps some EV owners here will tell us how much a service costs (and what the service interval is).

I would like to buy one.
Every time I make the 1.5 mile journey to the golf club, or 2 miles to Tesco, or even 55 miles to the mother-in-law, I think how much better it would be to have an electric car.
But I can't justify it from an economic aspect.

Lease one for a few years see how you feel before investing all your money. All you lose in the depreciation in the 2-4 years you have the car then you hand it back at the same as if you sold it at that time (roughly)

Check our the new mgs , they got an estate and an SUV their more reasonable priced for what they are

Can you charge at home? If so do so and switch to octupus go. Save a fortune getting it done at night

A lot of leases include getting the home charger fitted .. so shop around

Any questions happy to answer. I've run mine for 1 year done 10000 miles for about £100 in electric

 

[cliveb]

I've run mine for 1 year done 10000 miles for about £100 in electric

Ah - finally some hard facts - many thanks.
Out of interest, what EV do you have?
You've managed to get it down to 1p a mile, which is amazing.
Assuming you get about 4 miles per kWh, you must have paid about 4p a unit for your electricity. Was it really that cheap?
Just checked and Octopus Go is now 7.5p/kWh overnight, so I guess next year you'll be suffering at 2p a mile

 

[PJ87]

Ah - finally some hard facts - many thanks.
Out of interest, what EV do you have?
You've managed to get it down to 1p a mile, which is amazing.
Assuming you get about 4 miles per kWh, you must have paid about 4p a unit for your electricity. Was it really that cheap?
Just checked and Octopus Go is now 7.5p/kWh overnight, so I guess next year you'll be suffering at 2p a mile

My go was extended another year at 5.5p kw for 5 hours a night (go faster) I was lucky

However next year mine may go up to 11p flat all day as I'm looking to move to the telsa energy plan (solar and battery going in) so car will go up (double) but the house will reduce greatly however I may stay with go and charge at night the battery and use during the day (self manage)

Anyways back to the car it's a Corsa .. nothing flash, does what I need 50 miles a day and we use whenever we go out without the kids

We have a socket at work we can use for granny chargers so I sometimes top up at work which has reduced my costs

If I was charging home all time it would be about £200 a year

 

[bobmac]

And I was saying nothing is ever free, someone is paying for it somewhere....usually everyone else.

We have 2 supermarkets in our town, Sainsbury and Tesco.
Sainsbury doesn't have EV charging so all EV owners go to Tesco, charge up without paying anything and do their shopping at the same time. So what Tesco are losing on giving pennies worth of free charging they are gaining on more customers in the shop spending their money.
Rooftop solar installations will also help keep the cost down to the public so they won't be completely reliant on the grid prices.

https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/tesco_expands_its_solar_capacity_with_new_ppa_with_edf

 

[PJ87]

We have 2 supermarkets in our town, Sainsbury and Tesco.
Sainsbury doesn't have EV charging so all EV owners go to Tesco, charge up without paying anything and do their shopping at the same time. So what Tesco are losing on giving pennies worth of free charging they are gaining on more customers in the shop spending their money.
Rooftop solar installations will also help keep the cost down to the public so they won't be completely reliant on the grid prices.

https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/tesco_expands_its_solar_capacity_with_new_ppa_with_edf

lidl charge for their podpoints so i see it as the way forward. you may be right about tesco .. however atm they are mainly clogged up by black cabs our way who then go off for an hour or so

whats more disappointing is the gov changing policy to force all car parks to have them and now its just NEW or refurbed car parks..

they really are holding back the tech whilst banning petrol

its short sighted just to balance the books from covid

 

[GreiginFife]

If they want to use Supermarkets or car parks as the enticement to go EV then they need to address the imbalance (or at least round here). Our Tesco has over 200 parking spaces and 2 chargers, which are always in use when I visit, so I’d either have to time it perfectly or sit and wait, defeating the purpose.

Asda, over 400 spaces, 4 chargers. Aldi, c.150 spaces, 1 charger… This pattern repeats.

Our village community centre was supposed to get a charge point installed for community use (topping up etc) but the council pulled the funding. Next village, exactly the same.

At home charging is going to be the answer in the short to medium term IMO which creates issues for some that don’t have access.

I will go EV for my next car but I won’t be doing on the basis that I can get free charging at Supermarkets as it’s unlikely I’d even get a charger that’s free, let alone free…

We keep getting told that things are changing and in Fife, or at least West Fife, we have been continually told of all these projects to support the move to EV just to watch each and every one evaporate as the council pulls funding.

I, personally, am frustrated by the intransigence of the local authority and the private businesses that could do more to help, keep telling us they are doing more or will do more, but nothing materialises.

@bobmac that 2019 report on roof top Solar arrays, in the 2 odd years since, how many have been installed? I would bet not many.

This post is not designed to be negative towards EVs themselves as I do think they are the next logical step, but a realistic view on the realities that despite promises of things getting better, there’s not much evidence of it.

 

[ColchesterFC]

If they want to use Supermarkets or car parks as the enticement to go EV then they need to address the imbalance (or at least round here). Our Tesco has over 200 parking spaces and 2 chargers, which are always in use when I visit, so I’d either have to time it perfectly or sit and wait, defeating the purpose.

Asda, over 400 spaces, 4 chargers. Aldi, c.150 spaces, 1 charger… This pattern repeats.

The latest figures I could find show that there are 400k Electric vehicles in the UK and 750k Plug in hybrids. This compares to around 12 million ICE cars. That would fit with the allocation in supermarkets of around 1 in 100 vehicles being electric and providing 1 charging point for each 100 spaces. I would expect that number to increase with the increase in electric cars on the road and probably even faster if they start charging and can make money from them.

 

[bobmac]

If they want to use Supermarkets or car parks as the enticement to go EV then they need to address the imbalance (or at least round here). Our Tesco has over 200 parking spaces and 2 chargers, which are always in use when I visit, so I’d either have to time it perfectly or sit and wait, defeating the purpose.

Asda, over 400 spaces, 4 chargers. Aldi, c.150 spaces, 1 charger… This pattern repeats.

Our village community centre was supposed to get a charge point installed for community use (topping up etc) but the council pulled the funding. Next village, exactly the same.

At home charging is going to be the answer in the short to medium term IMO which creates issues for some that don’t have access.

I will go EV for my next car but I won’t be doing on the basis that I can get free charging at Supermarkets as it’s unlikely I’d even get a charger that’s free, let alone free…

We keep getting told that things are changing and in Fife, or at least West Fife, we have been continually told of all these projects to support the move to EV just to watch each and every one evaporate as the council pulls funding.

I, personally, am frustrated by the intransigence of the local authority and the private businesses that could do more to help, keep telling us they are doing more or will do more, but nothing materialises.

@bobmac that 2019 report on roof top Solar arrays, in the 2 odd years since, how many have been installed? I would bet not many.

This post is not designed to be negative towards EVs themselves as I do think they are the next logical step, but a realistic view on the realities that despite promises of things getting better, there’s not much evidence of it.

I can't disagree with anything you've said.

''We're not going to waste money installing chargers, no-one's got an EV.''
''I'm not going to buy an EV, there's nowhere to charge them.''

Without doubt, in the near future, EVs will be used by those who don't drive long distances and can charge at home but that will change albeit frustratingly slowly

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The latest figures I could find show that there are 400k Electric vehicles in the UK and 750k Plug in hybrids. This compares to around 12 million ICE cars. That would fit with the allocation in supermarkets of around 1 in 100 vehicles being electric and providing 1 charging point for each 100 spaces. I would expect that number to increase with the increase in electric cars on the road and probably even faster if they start charging and can make money from them.

I think the point there is that we keep being told this will happen but we don't really see any evidence of it. A charger here or there is not enough to give confidence to people to change. We need to see rows of them but the chat is 'they will come, trust us'. Come back to me when they are in, I don't trust them, whoever they/them are

 

[GreiginFife]

''We're not going to waste money installing chargers, no-one's got an EV.''

Just taking this statement though, if I use Tesco, Aldi and Asda round here as an example, they KNOW people have EVs as the charge points are constantly in use. So that argument, in their case, doesn't stack up. That's what frustrates me, they could do so much more but they simply don't. Which narrows the options, the viability and the desirability of EVs for people which then leads to the second statement.

 

[GreiginFife]

The latest figures I could find show that there are 400k Electric vehicles in the UK and 750k Plug in hybrids. This compares to around 12 million ICE cars. That would fit with the allocation in supermarkets of around 1 in 100 vehicles being electric and providing 1 charging point for each 100 spaces. I would expect that number to increase with the increase in electric cars on the road and probably even faster if they start charging and can make money from them.

It only takes a small variance from those ratios to cause a bottleneck though. The dangers of averages and statistics. If they only ever supply to the average then you'd have to have some sort of precognisance to know when exactly to go to get a charger. I just nipped to Tesco about half an hour ago and as usual the charge points are in use. My point above being that they COULD do more but by doing the bare minimum they help create the conditions of frustration and apathy that Bob highlights in his statements above. It becomes cyclic.

 

[cliveb]

whats more disappointing is the gov changing policy to force all car parks to have them and now its just NEW or refurbed car parks..
they really are holding back the tech whilst banning petrol

The government is taking the easy way out - using the stick instead of the carrot.
It's much easier to ban ICE cars than build the infrastructure required to encourage people to move to EV.
It was ever thus when governments want to change people's behaviour.

Meanwhile, as long as electricity generation is primarily from fossil fuels, running an EV isn't actually any better for the environment than petrol.
Right now, banning ICE cars is more a political gesture to give the impression they're doing something about climate change.

 

[spongebob59]

https://news.sky.com/story/electric-car-prices-are-about-to-plummet-heres-why-12536407

 

[GreiginFife]

https://news.sky.com/story/electric-car-prices-are-about-to-plummet-heres-why-12536407

Certain models (and certain manufacturers) are actually bringing "comparable" EVs in with good competitive prices vs the ICE "equivalent".

BMW's i4 M50 is approximately £10 - 13k cheaper than the M4 Competition. the M50 puts out 544HP whilst the ICE M4 cranks 504HP. The internal specifications (save for some "M" detailing) are pretty much the same as both 4er chassis based. The caveat here, obviously, is that the M50 will not continuously provide that 544HP and will degrade as the battery drains whilst the M4 will always max at 504HP until it runs out of petrol. But for 10-13K less, that's a decent trade off in my book.

Even the i4 s40 comes in, price wise, comparable with the M440i (albeit you lose one axel's drive) with similar power/spec alignments.

 

[bobmac]

Meanwhile, as long as electricity generation is primarily from fossil fuels, running an EV isn't actually any better for the environment than petrol.
Right now, banning ICE cars is more a political gesture to give the impression they're doing something about climate change.

Once again, that may have been the case a few years ago but the National Grid today tells a different story

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The government is taking the easy way out - using the stick instead of the carrot.
It's much easier to ban ICE cars than build the infrastructure required to encourage people to move to EV.
It was ever thus when governments want to change people's behaviour.

Meanwhile, as long as electricity generation is primarily from fossil fuels, running an EV isn't actually any better for the environment than petrol.
Right now, banning ICE cars is more a political gesture to give the impression they're doing something about climate change.

You are ignoring the improvements in local air quality and noise pollution that EV has over ICE.

 

[PJ87]

You are ignoring the improvements in local air quality and noise pollution that EV has over ICE.

It is very much moving pollution around for sure. Putting it away from where people live

It's not ideal but as I always maintain its easier to make the switch over to electric and THEN change the grid slowly than change the grid and then switch

People won't notice as much when say nuclear comes online for example .. end of day they get their electric same as before

For me I got octupus and didn't even realise all their electric (they buy) is from 100% renewable sources .. as My mate says .. Paul it all comes down the same line from barking

Which is true .. I don't notice any difference..my lights are still on my car still goes.. I don't notice what's going into it

So it's a change that will happen


Onto the price point. Fully charged YouTube channel did a compare of costs of lithium now to before and how cars haven't been coming down compared to price cuts

It was like the industry is trying to suppress it a bit. Which is tin foil hat stuff but not beyond the relms .. let's be honest oil companies rule the world and it's in their interest to hold back electric cars ...keep the easy money going

Mg have launched a few more competitive priced models

It's not gonna be over night but change is slowly creeping

 

[fundy]

The latest figures I could find show that there are 400k Electric vehicles in the UK and 750k Plug in hybrids. This compares to around 12 million ICE cars. That would fit with the allocation in supermarkets of around 1 in 100 vehicles being electric and providing 1 charging point for each 100 spaces. I would expect that number to increase with the increase in electric cars on the road and probably even faster if they start charging and can make money from them.

Those numbers dont add up?

They look more like 1 in 10 than 1 in 100, but not sure i believe theres only 12m ICE cars

 

[cliveb]

Once again, that may have been the case a few years ago but the National Grid today tells a different story

View attachment 41375

It's good to see that things are improving, and let's hope they continue to do so.
But it's also interesting that you like to cherry pick data to support your cause. (Have you noticed that it's quite windy today?)
How about overall yearly averages:

Fossil fuels: 41.3%
Renewables: 24.6%
Others: 25%
(Presumably interconnectors account for the remaining 9.1%)

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see massive change to address climate change.
The problem is that everyone seems focussed on cars, when in fact they are a relatively minor contributor to the problem.
The UK government has always treated car drivers as an easy target for their political posturing.

 

[PJ87]

It's good to see that things are improving, and let's hope they continue to do so.
But it's also interesting that you like to cherry pick data to support your cause. (Have you noticed that it's quite windy today?)
How about overall yearly averages:
View attachment 41379
Fossil fuels: 41.3%
Renewables: 24.6%
Others: 25%
(Presumably interconnectors account for the remaining 9.1%)

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see massive change to address climate change.
The problem is that everyone seems focussed on cars, when in fact they are a relatively minor contributor to the problem.
The UK government has always treated car drivers as an easy target for their political posturing.

The much much bigger elephant in the room is gas boilers .. their one of the most harmful things for the environment however they can't be beaten right now for heating home

Heat pumps are costly and don't work fully in older homes

Insulate Britain got the subject right but incorrectly went about it ...

Really if fusion comes online and they make better electric boilers that are cheaper to run then the world has a chance

However it's blooming long way off