Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
How did I miss the lane ahead closed arrow indicator on the previous gantries?
Smart Motorways
- Thread starter SaintHacker
- Start date
How did I miss the lane ahead closed arrow indicator on the previous gantries?
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
To me, lane closed don't use that lane
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
How about...
Is there a vehicle in that lane that needs to get into mine? Do I need to change lanes to let them in or can I back off a touch.?
And most people don't look far enough ahead and anticipate
Seeing a lorry change from the X lane to yours probably means everything slowing down. So backing off early keeps you'd distance
Too many distractions in the cabin?
Simply not concentrating enough?
All this and more....
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Which id say is what people do when they leave the lane early and not the last min
Reading the road
Even that zip merge article finished with
"Despite the studies, opinions still differ on zip-merging, please let us know in the comments what you think best practice should be and take our poll so we can find out what the majority thinks."
There are two threads on this forum that never end well and just end up going around in circles. Dress code and whether to merge early or late.
Get out now, now I tell you
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
There are two threads on this forum that never end well and just end up going around in circles. Dress code and whether to merge early or late.
Get out now, now I tell you
I'll wait until the last min.. it will go better ??
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Breaking down in a lane where traffic is driving at 70 plus mph is horribly unsafe. Smart motorways with no hard shoulder are dangerous and I just can't see how anyone can defend it.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
And Smart Motorways are the most dangerous. Stupid design.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Exactly how many times is the word "could" used in the article?
The headline is "Why drivers who merge at the last minute are right" ; that's pretty black & white.
The Highway Code says "Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.” That's pretty black & white as well.
Here's some more articles that explain it;
https://www.theorytestpro.co.uk/posts/zip-merging-need-learn/
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105986/70-per-cent-of-drivers-don-t-know-how-to-merge-in-turn
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/merge-in-turn
https://blog.greenflag.com/2019/the-zip-merging-debate/
All pretty black & white, all the same conclusion.
Perhaps you could provide us a link that shows you should dive into the one open lane the moment you see the signs & settle the debate?
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Exactly. There are statistics and there are statistics.
"Flying is the safest mode of transport" is not necessary true.
Judged on miles travelled, - yes(?)
Judged on the number of journeys made - No (?)
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
I stand by my original statement
You get people forming an orderly queue and then idiots bombing down to the last second. I'e not even slowing down
"Zip" merging or not you know in 800 yards you got to get over why are you still traveling at 70 until then?
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Because people don't like change.
Are they more dangerous than normal motorways?
Statistically, overall, the evidence suggests not: in figures analysed by the Department for Transport between 2015 and 2018, the death toll on smart motorways by traffic volume has been slightly lower than on conventional motorways, possibly because speeds are often limited.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/what-are-smart-motorways-and-are-they-safe
Design wise they aren't unsafe. However you can't account for human error.
SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
It will be interesting to see the stats in a few years, assuming they don't can the whole thing. As far as I'm aware the older 'upgraded' motorways, M25, M42 are controlled by a human who relies on seeing incidents on a cctv screen. The newer ones that are being built, M6 M3 M27 are computer ontrolled. The computer constantly monitors traffic flow and if it senses a problem does something about it far quicker than a human could. But as with anything it doesn't matter what the technology is it amostly comes down to driver behaviour.
On a slightly different note I had a good chat with a road engineer a few years ago. His answer to solve problems is very simple, bring the speed limits down, not up. Sounds mad? He said to me if you bring the speed down to say 50mph, the stopping gaps reduce to almost half what you need at 70-80mph, thus you can get a lot more traffic through a given length of road. Also people will be far more inclined to use lane 1 as they won't have the problem of getting stuck behind an HGV doing 56 and trying to get out into a lane moving at 70+ to get round it.
Makes a lot of sense when you think about it, it'll never catch on...
On a slightly different note I had a good chat with a road engineer a few years ago. His answer to solve problems is very simple, bring the speed limits down, not up. Sounds mad? He said to me if you bring the speed down to say 50mph, the stopping gaps reduce to almost half what you need at 70-80mph, thus you can get a lot more traffic through a given length of road. Also people will be far more inclined to use lane 1 as they won't have the problem of getting stuck behind an HGV doing 56 and trying to get out into a lane moving at 70+ to get round it.
Makes a lot of sense when you think about it, it'll never catch on...
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
You've only got to look at how well, generally, traffic flows in sections of motorways controlled by average speed cameras to see how that could work. Huge fuel savings as well in a lot of instances. Not sure I buy the more traffic argument as it will take longer to get traffic through a section, unless he was talking about counting traffic past a point, in which case I see it.
Now, hands up all those who want to turn a 5 hour 350 mile journey into a 7 hour one...? And there is your issue.
SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
Obviously it wouldn't work all the time, who in there righ mind is going to sit at 55 on an empty motorway at 2am? Not me!. But he reckoned for rush hours and generally busier roads (M25 anyone?) you'd find your journey time would actually come down as you'd be doing a constant 55, instead of 75,40,25,stop,30,stop,40,70 etc etc
thats the theory anyway, it will never work as some idiot will come along and mess it all up as usual
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Did in the States, didn't it? IIRC the general speed limit is 55, where ours is 70.
I'm not 100% sure on that, but no doubt someone here knows for certain.
The argument above makes sense to me.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
IIRC the 55mph speed limit was brought in because of the oil embargo in the 70's to reduce consumption; nothing to do with free flow or safety. And they enforce it rigidly, unlike the latitude here.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
The speed limits in the US are strict.
But they change so much as your driving you need your wits about you they can change from 55 mph to 30 back to 55 then 40.
It’s very easy to get caught out.
But the changes usually make sense , schools, small town etc.
There’s a 50mph limit on M62 junction with M6 causes a 7 mile tailback every morning pre COVID.
So not to sure of the 50 mph argument.
But it might work in smaller pinch points.
Robster59
Tour Rookie
I have never liked motorways where you don't have a permanent hard shoulder. People on motorways tend to drift into a different world as they are going for miles and miles at the same speed. Cruise control compounds this situation. Their mind drifts and they don't pay attention to road signs. I've seen that often in my travels.
In my company, something like this would never have got through our Risk Assessment process. We work on fatalities every x thousand years. Divide that by the number of installations (in our case) and then that gives you an indication of the potential of death. On a motorway it just takes one person out of hundreds potentially passing a stricken vehicle not to be paying attention, and you have an accident waiting to happen.
There are too many variables to make it safe. The use of the term "smart motorways" is an oxymoron in my opinion.
In my company, something like this would never have got through our Risk Assessment process. We work on fatalities every x thousand years. Divide that by the number of installations (in our case) and then that gives you an indication of the potential of death. On a motorway it just takes one person out of hundreds potentially passing a stricken vehicle not to be paying attention, and you have an accident waiting to happen.
There are too many variables to make it safe. The use of the term "smart motorways" is an oxymoron in my opinion.
