Smart Motorways!

[Norrin Radd]

Slightly off topic but motorway connected ,I had to do the speed awareness course and was surprised to learn that vans ,ie transit size and larger (other vans are available) the maximum speed limit for them is not the same as for a car it is 60mph.how many transits and sprinters go by doing well over 70 let alone 60.
And how many of them have stickers on the back saying 70 is their max allowable .

 

[CliveW]

Speed limit for goods vehicles under 7.5 tonnes ie Tranny vans etc is 70 mph on motorways and 60 mph on dual carriageway.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Speed limit for goods vehicles under 7.5 tonnes ie Tranny vans etc is 70 mph on motorways and 60 mph on dual carriageway.

Not what I was told ,a minibus of the same is 70but the van is 60.why would they tell me different

 

[CliveW]

Probably because they are retired police officers and don't know.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

 

[Norrin Radd]

Probably because they are retired police officers and don't know.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Good point

 

[SocketRocket]

Not what I was told ,a minibus of the same is 70but the van is 60.why would they tell me different

You are correct, its only vans that are the same size as similar car that can do 70 on a motorway, proper vans can only do 60 mph.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Not what I was told ,a minibus of the same is 70but the van is 60.why would they tell me different

A van with factory windows behind the driver can do 70 on a dual carriageway, whereas a van without any other windows other than the front doors can only do 60.
Of more importance, is that a van like that caught speeding gets the same penalty code as a HGV and not your normal car speeding code so the penalty code is HGV speeding. This can make a big difference to your insurance renewals, as it did mine by £80 a year for 5 years.

 

[SocketRocket]

A van with factory windows behind the driver can do 70 on a dual carriageway, whereas a van without any other windows other than the front doors can only do 60.
Of more importance, is that a van like that caught speeding gets the same penalty code as a HGV and not your normal car speeding code so the penalty code is HGV speeding. This can make a big difference to your insurance renewals, as it did mine by £80 a year for 5 years.

Where in the Government speed restriction document does it say this?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Where in the Government speed restriction document does it say this?

It comes under dual purpose vehicles I belive.

 

[Tashyboy]

letter came through today with my name on it, speeding. me tyrets kicked in for about 5 seconds anyway. its missis Ts.

 

[SocketRocket]

It comes under dual purpose vehicles I belive.

Dual purpose vehicles are utility truck types. 4 wheel drive, passenger seats behind driver, load area at back and long wheel base.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

passenger seats behind driver

Which means windows behind the driver

 

[JohnnyDee]

Do your limits go 40, 60, 30, 50, 30, 60, 40? On consecutive gantries, when there is zero traffic, and then flicker from 70 to 60 when you haven't moved for 20 minutes?

Late to the party on this so haven't read all posts but this one is spot on.

I used to drive over 40,000 miles a year with my job and this nonsense was getting worse (M25 & M42, M20). In the end I had to spend a disproportionate amount of time watching my speedo and not the surrounding traffic flow - and before someone suggests 'boy racer' I have always stuck to speed limits, so much so, that I am fed up with people following behind me looking less than happy giving me the evil eye and the finger. Obviously they have a special dispensation to flout the law and are allowed to go as fast as they fancy irrespective of any given speed limit, however I prefer not to lose my licence.

So-called 'smartening' is now in progress on the M4 between Reading & Heathrow and all it is doing is causing pandemonium on a section of road that is already chronically overused. The end result will be a more dangerous road to drive. Still, think of all those nice big juicy fines they'll be able to collect as, after all, it's all about safety of course

 

[Blue in Munich]

I recently attended a speed awareness course.

At the end we were all asked what we had most taken from the course.
Everybody said the speed demonstration of the difference at driving at 30mph compared to 31mph.

This was done on a test track, with an advanced driver in a family estate car,good tyres and a dry road in clear conditions.
Cardboard boxes were placed at a point on the track. At 30mph, emergency stop saw the car stop about a foot from the boxes. At 31mph, emergency stop saw the car smash through the boxes and was still travelling at 8mph at impact!

The guys taking the course said that for this reason the Police will be tightening up the tolerances in the near future.

With this in mind I wouldn't say, unlucky to be caught doing 35mph, rather, serves you right and accept the consequencies.

Did they talk about reaction times in relation to this, or merely the stopping distance?

 

[SocketRocket]

Which means windows behind the driver

No! It means all those conditions are met not just the windows, windows in the back of a van still make it a van. Generally the rule is 'If it looks like a van it probably is a van'

 

[Foxholer]

Dual purpose vehicles are utility truck types. 4 wheel drive, passenger seats behind driver, load area at back and long wheel base.

Which means windows behind the driver

Neither of you are fully correct!
From Gov.UK
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

• constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle

or

• permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Neither of you are fully correct!
From Gov.UK
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

• constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle

or

• permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.

A van with factory fitted windows behind the driver will or should have seats behind the driver and passenger as well, therefore it does qualify as a dual purpose vehicle.
The vehicle has to be factory built that way, and so the V5 will give it a different description to that of a van.

 

[Foxholer]

A van with factory fitted windows behind the driver will or should have seats behind the driver and passenger as well, therefore it does qualify as a dual purpose vehicle....

Perhaps - or perhaps not. I neither know, nor care! The definition/description I quoted is all that matters - and that states 'has', not 'should have'!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Big plus from an old git used to country lanes and who seldom makes use of motorways far less smart motorways.
I find them very good for better traffic flow.

More traffic flow problems are caused by third lane hoggers south of Preston they should crack down on the culprits,

 

[Hacker Khan]

I recently attended a speed awareness course.

At the end we were all asked what we had most taken from the course.
Everybody said the speed demonstration of the difference at driving at 30mph compared to 31mph.

This was done on a test track, with an advanced driver in a family estate car,good tyres and a dry road in clear conditions.
Cardboard boxes were placed at a point on the track. At 30mph, emergency stop saw the car stop about a foot from the boxes. At 31mph, emergency stop saw the car smash through the boxes and was still travelling at 8mph at impact!

The guys taking the course said that for this reason the Police will be tightening up the tolerances in the near future.

With this in mind I wouldn't say, unlucky to be caught doing 35mph, rather, serves you right and accept the consequencies.

I do not doubt for a second the validity of the example as the boxes were obviously put in an place somewhere between the terminal stopping distance of that driver at 30 and 31 mph. And indeed speed is one of the more easily controllable factors to cut down on stopping distances.

But for example through my work I know very precisely how much moisture on the road in various states (damp, wet, ice, snow, frost, slush) impacts the friction between the car tyre and the road surface and therefore stopping distances. We work with a lot of car manufacturers to supply them with this information so they can feed this into the algorithms that will be used by autonomous vehicles to control their speed (there is a reason currently the vast majority of autonomous vehicle trials are done in dry often sunny conditions). Even now some countries have permanent variable speed limits depending on the weather (for example 70 mph in the dry and 60 in the wet) which is a good idea. You then add in the underlying and variable skid resistance of a road if it is dry. Also the quality/amount of tread on tyre. And also the reaction times of the driver who often is the biggest factor.

I can pretty much guarantee that with road conditions and tyres being equal, I can stop quicker at 31 mph than my father can at 30 mph. And no doubt my 18 year old nephew can stop even quicker at 30 mph than I can. I do not mind a focus on speed as as I said, it is relatively easily to measure, although I have my doubts that it can be uniformly measured in 1 mph increments, and the speedo of your car and speed camera will read exactly the same, especially if you have an analogue speedo. It can also be easily changed by the driver. But getting obsessed to the point where 32 mph is an offence but 30 mph is fine is kind of glossing over and simplifying the safety aspect of driving a lot, even to the point of giving out a false impression of how safe that vehicle at that point in time really is. 30 mph in some conditions/vehicles can be a lot more dangerous than 35 mph in others on the same road.

Eventually autonomous vehicles will get around this as they will automatically adjust their speeds on many factors, not just the fixed permanent speed limit in place that may or may not be completely inappropriate for that portion of road and that vehicle and the current weather and the current amount of traffic near by and the current amount of pedestrian activity near by etc etc etc. Indeed there is one school of thought that says fixed speed limits may eventually disappear.