Smart Motorways!

[Bunkermagnet]

Perhaps - or perhaps not. I neither know, nor care! The definition/description I quoted is all that matters - and that states 'has', not 'should have'!

When I say “should have” it is meant in that the option of crew seats behind the driver includes the windows, and is a factory fit option. If the seats are not there, it’s because someone has removed them after wards.
TBH I don’t really see why van is any different speed limit wise to the same vehicle but has crew seats and windows. The brakes and suspension are the same. You don’t have different limits for saloons over estate cars so the weight arguement isn’t really an issue I feel.

 

[stefanovic]

I've been told that the people who run the speed awareness courses get paid big amounts.
The government received revenue from over 2 million speeding fines in 2016. Latest figures are likely to be much higher.
The courts will love you to appear for not paying a fine. Keeps them in business, too.

"Eventually autonomous vehicles will get around this as they will automatically adjust their speeds on many factors, not just the fixed permanent speed limit in place. Indeed there is one school of thought that says fixed speed limits may eventually disappear."

That's science fiction.

 

[bobmac]

I've been told that the people who run the speed awareness courses get paid big amounts.
The government received revenue from over 2 million speeding fines in 2016. Latest figures are likely to be much higher.
The courts will love you to appear for not paying a fine. Keeps them in business, too.


That's science fiction.

It wasn't that long ago when they said man would never fly

 

[stefanovic]

It wasn't that long ago when they said man would never fly

How long ago? 18th Century.

Here's one way you can get away with speeding on the M42.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...foreign-drivers-offences-committed-roads.html

Become a foreigner!

 

[bobmac]

How long ago? 18th Century.

!

A bit more recent ......1903 was the first manned controlled flight.
And if you think the autonomous car is science fiction, it will soon be science fact.
This video was filmed Mar 2017.........

 

[stefanovic]

I'd prefer one of those big lorries tailgating me than some guy saying 'Look no hands'.

They laughed at the Montgolfier Bothers in the 18th Century.

 

[bobmac]

I think I'd prefer one of those big lorries tailgating me than some guy saying 'Look no hands'.

You replied to my post after 4 minutes.
The video was 11 minutes long.
Didn't watch too much of it then?

 

[Foxholer]

You replied to my post after 4 minutes.
The video was 11 minutes long.
Didn't watch too much of it then?

I trust you realise YOU set it to start at 3:19, so not all down to him!

 

[Dan2501]

The Tesla Model S and Model X also both have "autopilot" right now.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

Far from science fiction. Few more years and these features will be a standard feature.

 

[bobmac]

The Tesla Model S and Model X also both have "autopilot" right now.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

Far from science fiction. Few more years and these features will be a standard feature.

And the model 3

 

[Golfmmad]

Did they talk about reaction times in relation to this, or merely the stopping distance?

They did mention that briefly but the emphasis was always on speed and the consequences. they also made the point that the demo was in near perfect conditions and obviously the knock on effects of less than perfect.
They seem to stick to a set routine as there is a lot to get through and very much, "Speed Awareness" without being too technical.

I did mention to one of the guys at the end of the course that I thought using and texting on a phone would be discussed.
He just simply said, that is a completely different topic and we just concentrate on speed awareness but it could be one for the future.

 

[Blue in Munich]

They did mention that briefly but the emphasis was always on speed and the consequences. they also made the point that the demo was in near perfect conditions and obviously the knock on effects of less than perfect.
They seem to stick to a set routine as there is a lot to get through and very much, "Speed Awareness" without being too technical.

I did mention to one of the guys at the end of the course that I thought using and texting on a phone would be discussed.
He just simply said, that is a completely different topic and we just concentrate on speed awareness but it could be one for the future.

Two drivers, same car, same conditions. One is bimbling along at 30mph, taking a call on his hands free mobile. The other is pushing it a bit, doing 40mph, scanning the road, driving positively. Something happens. The bimbler, distracted by his phone, manages to react in an average 1.5 seconds. The more alert driver reacts quickly, 0.5 seconds. Who comes to a halt quicker; how much more quickly does that driver stop in terms of distance?

Remember, the emphasis is on speed and the consequences...

 

[SocketRocket]

I do not doubt for a second the validity of the example as the boxes were obviously put in an place somewhere between the terminal stopping distance of that driver at 30 and 31 mph. And indeed speed is one of the more easily controllable factors to cut down on stopping distances.

But for example through my work I know very precisely how much moisture on the road in various states (damp, wet, ice, snow, frost, slush) impacts the friction between the car tyre and the road surface and therefore stopping distances. We work with a lot of car manufacturers to supply them with this information so they can feed this into the algorithms that will be used by autonomous vehicles to control their speed (there is a reason currently the vast majority of autonomous vehicle trials are done in dry often sunny conditions). Even now some countries have permanent variable speed limits depending on the weather (for example 70 mph in the dry and 60 in the wet) which is a good idea. You then add in the underlying and variable skid resistance of a road if it is dry. Also the quality/amount of tread on tyre. And also the reaction times of the driver who often is the biggest factor.

I can pretty much guarantee that with road conditions and tyres being equal, I can stop quicker at 31 mph than my father can at 30 mph. And no doubt my 18 year old nephew can stop even quicker at 30 mph than I can. I do not mind a focus on speed as as I said, it is relatively easily to measure, although I have my doubts that it can be uniformly measured in 1 mph increments, and the speedo of your car and speed camera will read exactly the same, especially if you have an analogue speedo. It can also be easily changed by the driver. But getting obsessed to the point where 32 mph is an offence but 30 mph is fine is kind of glossing over and simplifying the safety aspect of driving a lot, even to the point of giving out a false impression of how safe that vehicle at that point in time really is. 30 mph in some conditions/vehicles can be a lot more dangerous than 35 mph in others on the same road.

Eventually autonomous vehicles will get around this as they will automatically adjust their speeds on many factors, not just the fixed permanent speed limit in place that may or may not be completely inappropriate for that portion of road and that vehicle and the current weather and the current amount of traffic near by and the current amount of pedestrian activity near by etc etc etc. Indeed there is one school of thought that says fixed speed limits may eventually disappear.

The point is that the same person driving the same car under the same conditions at 31 mph will be still moving at 8 mph at the distance they would have stopped at 30 mph.

 

[Swango1980]

Smart Motorways were being debated on Good Morning Britain today. The main argument for the guy defending them was this:

The alternative to Smart Motorways is much worse. Why? Because less capacity on motorways will result in more traffic on local roads, which are more dangerous and there would be even more deaths.

Interesting argument, I wonder when Highways England agreed with local highway authorities that they'd accept more deaths on their motorways to ensure less days on other roads they are not responsible for? It seems, in a nutshell, that there were x deaths on local roads. By creating more capacity on motorways, thus reducing traffic on local roads, the deaths would become x-y, but with an extra z deaths on motorways. However, as long as z less than y, then thumbs up to Smart Highways. Tell that to the people related to the z extra deaths.

He also went on top say "Hard Shoulders are also dangerous". What a crazy argument. Yes, they are dangerous and it would be a reasonable argument if their presence resulted in people stopping to have a picnic on them or a little game of 5 aside. However, they are clearly safer for a broken down car than a live lane, where you'd be relying on drivers being aware the lane is closed if a breakdown happens. And, in a Smart Motorway, the cars closest behind you will never get that warning the lane is closed anyway.

I think he needed to have a better argument. Although, in fairness to him, Good Morning Britain is an impossible platform to make any sort of debate, if your argument happens to be the opposite of Piers Morgan. I'm surprised this guy got a word in at all.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

It not that the motorways are now smart, it's that motorists are still thick when using motorways or any highway that has more than one lane. Going to smart/4 lanes just gives blinkered drivers another lane to hog. The problem is in this country is Starting from left to right, inside lane is slowest going out to the fastest. It just does not work. Undertaking should be legalised.
Trouble is as well in this country, speed limit on motorways. Lorrys do what 56mph Max. Maximum is 70 mph. Really. Ave seen cars averaging 80 mph and the rest. Yet when driving in Oz the speed limit Max is 110 kph. And nearly everyone drives at that speed or close to 100 kph. It is strange seeing the same cars alongside you for miles and miles. Yet it works.

You are right, and I've been arguing it for ages.
This ingrained British idea that the lane on your right is for going faster in- always.!
That is why many people ( and , at present, the Law)will still condemn the motorist doing the max speed limit in any lane when there is an unused lane on his left. Doesn't seem to register that
Anyone going faster is breaking the law!
This mentality is best seen on urban dual carriageways which has a speed limit of say, 40 or 50. Drive at that limit in the right hand lane and soon there is someone tailgating and flashing you to get out of his "overtaking" lane.

What do these people think will happen when driverless cars are on the road in abundance(I'll be too old to see that , I think).? Those cars will never break the speed limit and drivers that do will by then be identified and sorted at whatever place on the road they are at. ( satellite tracking).Speeding will be almost extinct?!

I cannot understand the rationale of this British hatred of undertaking.
Most Countries with Roads with multiple lanes permit and expect undertaking. The British need the Law and the motorist to disenthrall themselves and do the same

Having said that, I do not agree with "smart "motorways. The hard shoulder had an important, vital even, function as a safety feature and to facilitate emergency action. That requirement has not changed. The hard shoulder should remain.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I cannot understand the rationale of this British hatred of undertaking.
Most Countries with Roads with multiple lanes permit and expect undertaking.

my irritation with it usually comes around from being flashed at from behind by a driver wanting me to get out of the way and when I go to pull in I find some idiot tearing up inside me - as the guy behind continues to tailgate and flash his lights. i am much less bothered about the guy behind - I am happy to clear that lane - but I need somewhere to go and the guy inside blindsided is creating a serious risk...and of course how many times does that idiot behind pass me - and then immediately swing in front of me as the guy inside undertakes and then wants to move out...inconsiderate driving and risk to me and my passengers - that’s where my anger can come from.

even without the tailgater - the law requires me to move in from an outer lane as soon as I can. Undertaking makes that more risky. Just don’t do it. Wait and overtake.

note - my concerns above are when away from junctions. Approaching motorway junctions I expect cars to juggling about trying to get into correct lane.

 

[clubchamp98]

my irritation with it usually comes around from being flashed at from behind by a driver wanting me to get out of the way and when I go to pull in I find some idiot tearing up inside me - as the guy behind continues to tailgate and flash his lights. i am much less bothered about the guy behind - I am happy to clear that lane - but I need somewhere to go and the guy inside blindsided is creating a serious risk...and of course how many times does that idiot behind pass me - and then immediately swing in front of me as the guy inside undertakes and then wants to move out...inconsiderate driving and risk to me and my passengers - that’s where my anger can come from.

even without the tailgater - the law requires me to move in from an outer lane as soon as I can. Undertaking makes that more risky. Just don’t do it. Wait and overtake.

There is the problem in a nutshell.
In the UK we are expected to change lanes to conform to the law/ code.
On multi lane roads in the US you just choose a lane and stay in it .
If someone wants to pass they can on either side.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is the problem in a nutshell.
In the UK we are expected to change lanes to conform to the law/ code.
On multi lane roads in the US you just choose a lane and stay in it .
If someone wants to pass they can on either side.

And so until we adopt a us style approach we just don’t undertake. End of.

 

[Imurg]

One of the basic rules of driving that we have in the UK is drive as far to the left as you can unless you're turning right, overtaking or road signs/markings require you to be elsewhere.
Sadly, many, if not most, have forgotten this.
We are also impatient and/or arrogant.
The huge majority of bad driving is caused by ignorance, arrogance or impatience or any combination of the 3.
And that, even more sadly, will not change as long as we have holes in our rear ends

 

[clubchamp98]

And so until we adopt a us style approach we just don’t undertake. End of.

Good luck with that with the standard of driving here.
But if people don’t dawdle in the lanes it would not be nessesary.
We can be doing the speed limit but we like golf have no right to stop someone going faster if that’s what they want to do.