Smart Motorways

[Billysboots]

I absolutely acknowledge the fact that collisions on motorways may largely be a result of significant driver error, however, that in no way absolves those responsible for approving the roll out of these horrific roads of blame. Human behaviour HAS to be a consideration at the design stage.

I speak as someone who has worked in and around motorways for over twenty years, and has investigated countless collisions on them. Anyone who has ever stood on a hard shoulder of a motorway and had traffic thundering by will tell you, categorically, that the hard shoulder is a scary place. I would go as far as saying they are the most dangerous part of the network. I will never forget watching a lorry driving through a 100m taper of illuminated cones, straight into the back of a liveried patrol car which itself was lit up like a Christmas tree. On the “safe” hard shoulder. I have investigated fatal collisions where recovery contractors have been struck whilst loading broken down vehicles onto recovery trucks. On the “safe” hard shoulder.

Turn that hard shoulder into a live lane, where you rely on drivers to adhere to lane closure warnings (in the event they even activate promptly), and it is a clear recipe for disaster. An absolutely ludicrous concept which will continue to cost lives.

 

[PJ87]

I absolutely acknowledge the fact that collisions on motorways may largely be a result of significant driver error, however, that in no way absolves those responsible for approving the roll out of these horrific roads of blame. Human behaviour HAS to be a consideration at the design stage.

I speak as someone who has worked in and around motorways for over twenty years, and has investigated countless collisions on them. Anyone who has ever stood on a hard shoulder of a motorway and had traffic thundering by will tell you, categorically, that the hard shoulder is a scary place. I would go as far as saying they are the most dangerous part of the network. I will never forget watching a lorry driving through a 100m taper of illuminated cones, straight into the back of a liveried patrol car which itself was lit up like a Christmas tree. On the “safe” hard shoulder. I have investigated fatal collisions where recovery contractors have been struck whilst loading broken down vehicles onto recovery trucks. On the “safe” hard shoulder.

Turn that hard shoulder into a live lane, where you rely on drivers to adhere to lane closure warnings (in the event they even activate promptly), and it is a clear recipe for disaster. An absolutely ludicrous concept which will continue to cost lives.

Is smart motorways step one in the automatic driving stage when that gets off the ground? So the cars should drive better than a human in some aspects

 

[Billysboots]

Is smart motorways step one in the automatic driving stage when that gets off the ground? So the cars should drive better than a human in some aspects

Possibly, but that day is so far off, if indeed it ever happens, that we are left with inherently unsafe roads in the meantime.

 

[clubchamp98]

I absolutely acknowledge the fact that collisions on motorways may largely be a result of significant driver error, however, that in no way absolves those responsible for approving the roll out of these horrific roads of blame. Human behaviour HAS to be a consideration at the design stage.

I speak as someone who has worked in and around motorways for over twenty years, and has investigated countless collisions on them. Anyone who has ever stood on a hard shoulder of a motorway and had traffic thundering by will tell you, categorically, that the hard shoulder is a scary place. I would go as far as saying they are the most dangerous part of the network. I will never forget watching a lorry driving through a 100m taper of illuminated cones, straight into the back of a liveried patrol car which itself was lit up like a Christmas tree. On the “safe” hard shoulder. I have investigated fatal collisions where recovery contractors have been struck whilst loading broken down vehicles onto recovery trucks. On the “safe” hard shoulder.

Turn that hard shoulder into a live lane, where you rely on drivers to adhere to lane closure warnings (in the event they even activate promptly), and it is a clear recipe for disaster. An absolutely ludicrous concept which will continue to cost lives.

Unfortunately the people who make these decisions don’t seem to listen to the people on the ground like you.
They see stats on a spread sheet not bodies in bags.
That’s the tragedy for me.
They should be scrapped ASAP.

 

[Tashyboy]

I absolutely acknowledge the fact that collisions on motorways may largely be a result of significant driver error, however, that in no way absolves those responsible for approving the roll out of these horrific roads of blame. Human behaviour HAS to be a consideration at the design stage.

I speak as someone who has worked in and around motorways for over twenty years, and has investigated countless collisions on them. Anyone who has ever stood on a hard shoulder of a motorway and had traffic thundering by will tell you, categorically, that the hard shoulder is a scary place. I would go as far as saying they are the most dangerous part of the network. I will never forget watching a lorry driving through a 100m taper of illuminated cones, straight into the back of a liveried patrol car which itself was lit up like a Christmas tree. On the “safe” hard shoulder. I have investigated fatal collisions where recovery contractors have been struck whilst loading broken down vehicles onto recovery trucks. On the “safe” hard shoulder.

Turn that hard shoulder into a live lane, where you rely on drivers to adhere to lane closure warnings (in the event they even activate promptly), and it is a clear recipe for disaster. An absolutely ludicrous concept which will continue to cost lives.

An excellent and sobering read. What I cannot understand is when I have been on speed awareness courses. They sing the praises of the safety of motorways re miles driven and accidents, yet " smart motorways" must account for a fair percentage of the fatalities. Thus the safety of motorways could and should be better.

 

[Billysboots]

Unfortunately the people who make these decisions don’t seem to listen to the people on the ground like you.
They see stats on a spread sheet not bodies in bags.
That’s the tragedy for me.
They should be scrapped ASAP.

I am yet to speak to a single practitioner anywhere in the country who was part of any consultation process.

These roads are totally reliant on driver behaviour. And as we have never taught people to drive in this country, merely how to pass a driving test, the potential for catastrophic consequences should have been clear from the outset.

 

[Billysboots]

An excellent and sobering read. What I cannot understand is when I have been on speed awareness courses. They sing the praises of the safety of motorways re miles driven and accidents, yet " smart motorways" must account for a fair percentage of the fatalities. Thus the safety of motorways could and should be better.

Motorways should be the safest roads in the country. Everything is travelling in the same direction, after all.

But years of motorway overhead gantries warning of hazards ahead, only for there to be no hazard (the warning having not been promptly cleared) has resulted in deeply engrained complacency. We all see it - clear warning of a lane closure ahead which too many drivers simply ignore until they reach the hazard. The potential for disaster should have been clear from the very outset.

The word smart is as inappropriate as it could possibly be.

 

[clubchamp98]

I am yet to speak to a single practitioner anywhere in the country who was part of any consultation process.

These roads are totally reliant on driver behaviour. And as we have never taught people to drive in this country, merely how to pass a driving test, the potential for catastrophic consequences should have been clear from the outset.

Like a lot of things this relies on people watching CCTV then turning signs on , that a lot of drivers just ignore.!
Tech can solve many things but creates its own problems .
This is a bit of both
But driving standards here are shocking imo.
But to save a bit of a traffic jam they put the general public in to much danger for my liking.

 

[PJ87]

Motorways should be the safest roads in the country. Everything is travelling in the same direction, after all.

But years of motorway overhead gantries warning of hazards ahead, only for there to be no hazard (the warning having not been promptly cleared) has resulted in deeply engrained complacency. We all see it - clear warning of a lane closure ahead which too many drivers simply ignore until they reach the hazard. The potential for disaster should have been clear from the very outset.

The word smart is as inappropriate as it could possibly be.

Trusting the public to do the right thing is always hard. Sticking to speed limits is an easy example

Then you have different standards of what people deem acceptable condition to keep their cars in

Was it murph saying he only puts top brand tyres on his car . Their will be people with part worn or budget brands (not unsafe budget but part warn are)

Then some people I know just let their cars become rust buckets

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I absolutely acknowledge the fact that collisions on motorways may largely be a result of significant driver error, however, that in no way absolves those responsible for approving the roll out of these horrific roads of blame. Human behaviour HAS to be a consideration at the design stage.

I speak as someone who has worked in and around motorways for over twenty years, and has investigated countless collisions on them. Anyone who has ever stood on a hard shoulder of a motorway and had traffic thundering by will tell you, categorically, that the hard shoulder is a scary place. I would go as far as saying they are the most dangerous part of the network. I will never forget watching a lorry driving through a 100m taper of illuminated cones, straight into the back of a liveried patrol car which itself was lit up like a Christmas tree. On the “safe” hard shoulder. I have investigated fatal collisions where recovery contractors have been struck whilst loading broken down vehicles onto recovery trucks. On the “safe” hard shoulder.

Turn that hard shoulder into a live lane, where you rely on drivers to adhere to lane closure warnings (in the event they even activate promptly), and it is a clear recipe for disaster. An absolutely ludicrous concept which will continue to cost lives.

Amen to that brother!

The solution is not to keep adding more lanes, it is alternative forms of transport. Add more lanes and you encourage more cars on the motorways but when they come off the motorways our towns and cities don't have the capacity to cope with the additional vehicles.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I am yet to speak to a single practitioner anywhere in the country who was part of any consultation process.

These roads are totally reliant on driver behaviour. And as we have never taught people to drive in this country, merely how to pass a driving test, the potential for catastrophic consequences should have been clear from the outset.

The biggest issue of the lot, spot on.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Thanks. I'm surprised the stats say they are safer but I'm not surprised by the public perception.

I'm not seeing any substance in that article to substantiate the claim, particularly any comparative stats.

 

[jim8flog]

If the M25 is an example, they are garbage. The speed limit is a random number generator, which has very little to do with traffic density, and a lot to do with raising money via the cameras.

on a lot of the M25 on the left hand side drivers do not even use the 2 out of 4 lanes even when they are completely empty.

 

[Blue in Munich]

on a lot of the M25 on the left hand side drivers do not even use the 2 out of 4 lanes even when they are completely empty.

Once pulled up alongside a driver in traffic in my working clothes on the firm’s bike and motioned to the driver to wind down his window. He seemed a little surprised and asked what the matter was. I asked him “Where did you get that sticker?” He started smiling.

In the rear window, in the blue and white font of motorway signs, was a sticker that read ; M25 inside lane club. Visitors welcome.

Turned out a mate of his had gone and had a batch made up. Summed up the issue with motorway users quite succinctly.

 

[SocketRocket]

But thats the whole point, they're not meant to be approaching as the lane is supposed to be closed for some considerable distance, which is why I think the penalties for ignoring the lane closure signs shoudl be ramped up massively.
One other question. Dual carriagway A roads. 2 or 3 lanes, 70mph limit, never had hard shoulders. Whats the difference?

That's fine when the lane is closed but not for the person who has just broken down. How many seconds would you be happy to sit in your stationary car on the inside lane of a motorway.

To answer your question it's the volume of traffic and heavy goods vehicles. On most A roads and dual carriageways there is normally a grass verge/pavement to pull onto.

 

[Billysboots]

That's fine when the lane is closed but not for the person who has just broken down. How many seconds would you be happy to sit in your stationary car on the inside lane of a motorway.

Whenever I was sitting in a fully striped up, lit up patrol car on the hard shoulder I would spend my entire time with my eyes glued to the rear view mirror, looking as far back down the motorway as I could see. I never, ever, felt comfortable.

The thought of sitting in my own car in a live lane is not something I ever want to contemplate.

 

[SammmeBee]

Lorries are the worst and should all be restricted to lane 1 only rather than pulling out and taking 7 miles to overtake someone, which causes everyone else to cram into the other lanes to try to get past them......

 

[jim8flog]

Once pulled up alongside a driver in traffic in my working clothes on the firm’s bike and motioned to the driver to wind down his window. He seemed a little surprised and asked what the matter was. I asked him “Where did you get that sticker?” He started smiling.

In the rear window, in the blue and white font of motorway signs, was a sticker that read ; M25 inside lane club. Visitors welcome.

Turned out a mate of his had gone and had a batch made up. Summed up the issue with motorway users quite succinctly.

I always remember travelling home about 11 pm new years eve 2019. The M25 was absolutely empty. I was in the nearside lane and was overtaken by someone on the extreme right lane on one of the 4 lane sections. He never moved over after passing me either.

 

[SaintHacker]

That's fine when the lane is closed but not for the person who has just broken down. How many seconds would you be happy to sit in your stationary car on the inside lane of a motorway.

I wouldnt, I would be out of the car and over the barrier, even if that meant climbing over the seats and out the passenger side

 

[Blue in Munich]

I always remember travelling home about 11 pm new years eve 2019. The M25 was absolutely empty. I was in the nearside lane and was overtaken by someone on the extreme right lane on one of the 4 lane sections. He never moved over after passing me either.

Not right, but I have far less of an issue with that than having to go out to lane 3 or 4 to overtake a vehicle doing a solid 50mph in lane 2 or 3 of an empty motorway.