Smart Motorways

[Blue in Munich]

Define "bad driving"... I knew the streets of London well and as a younger bloke would admit to being intolerant of dawdlers and probably [certainly] didn't cut them any slack... I knew exactly where I was going and if you didn't move over and let me by I'd make you uncomfortable until you did...

I did say to herself, when she returned from Sicily, she was probably being too polite... She did note she wouldn't mind having the sole concession for gaffer tape there... As all cars, including the prancing horses, appeared to be held together with the stuff...

Having been born in London & brought up on London driving, I wonder how much of it is worse standards in London, and how much of it is out-of-towners simply not being used to the sheer volume of traffic in London?

 

[clubchamp98]

Having been born in London & brought up on London driving, I wonder how much of it is worse standards in London, and how much of it is out-of-towners simply not being used to the sheer volume of traffic in London?

I think any big city centre is not really fit for the amount of traffic.
The roads are just not designed for the sheer volume of cars.
And in them cars there are always a few idiots.
I have never driven in London and don’t want to by the sound of it on here.
Best place I have ever driven was Minorca it was so quiet.

 

[USER1999]

Having been born in London & brought up on London driving, I wonder how much of it is worse standards in London, and how much of it is out-of-towners simply not being used to the sheer volume of traffic in London?

I have driven in North London 5 days a week for 20 years. Year on year, driving standards have got worse. It's one of the reasons I now commute in a rattle trap banger. No way am I risking my pride and joy round staples corner every day.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I have driven in North London 5 days a week for 20 years. Year on year, driving standards have got worse. It's one of the reasons I now commute in a rattle trap banger. No way am I risking my pride and joy round staples corner every day.

I wouldn't disagree with that Murph, but I suspect that also applies across the country and not just to London.

 

[USER1999]

I wouldn't disagree with that Murph, but I suspect that also applies across the country and not just to London.

Certainly has, but I haven't seen the decline quite like London. It is gradually spreading to Watford, but flipping heck has it got some way to go. Rounabouts are undoubtedly the best.
staples corner, my favourite, get in the right hand lane, take the first exit, left hand lane? Third exit obviously. Every day. It's bonkers. You need eyes in the back of your head, and there is no longer a way of driving it that would put you in the right on an insurance claim. The bus lane has alot to answer for, as if you don't drive in it, it's impossible to get in the correct lane, and if you do, you are part of the problem.

 

[clubchamp98]

Certainly has, but I haven't seen the decline quite like London. It is gradually spreading to Watford, but flipping heck has it got some way to go. Rounabouts are undoubtedly the best.
staples corner, my favourite, get in the right hand lane, take the first exit, left hand lane? Third exit obviously. Every day. It's bonkers. You need eyes in the back of your head, and there is no longer a way of driving it that would put you in the right on an insurance claim. The bus lane has alot to answer for, as if you don't drive in it, it's impossible to get in the correct lane, and if you do, you are part of the problem.

Yes I think road planning and layouts have something to answer for.
One that annoys me is two lanes at traffic lights,left lane is turning left only.
But get one car turning right in the other lane and you have a Hugh queue while the left lane is empty.
It should be the other way around as there is nothing stopping cars turning left .
But oncoming traffic stopping you turning right.
Bonkers.

 

[srixon 1]

Some lunatic cyclist was caught by the police in Yorkshire today cycling on the motorway.

 

[clubchamp98]

Some lunatic cyclist was caught by the police in Yorkshire today cycling on the motorway.

I use a cycle lane on a dual carriageway and that’s scary enough.
Can’t imagine what a motorway is like.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Yes I think road planning and layouts have something to answer for.

All day long.
The constant lane reductions to allow bus lanes and now the extra sectioned off cycle lanes they have put in has funnelled all the non buses and cycles into a single lane that just cannot go anywhere, Then of course you get the buses and cycles wanting to join that dormant traffic flow slowing it up even more.

 

[sunshine]

Yes I think road planning and layouts have something to answer for.
One that annoys me is two lanes at traffic lights,left lane is turning left only.
But get one car turning right in the other lane and you have a Hugh queue while the left lane is empty.
It should be the other way around as there is nothing stopping cars turning left .
But oncoming traffic stopping you turning right.
Bonkers.

That's not a problem in London, everyone just drives in whatever lane they want so you would never have an empty lane

 

[MegaSteve]

That's not a problem in London, everyone just drives in whatever lane they want so you would never have an empty lane

Everyone ...

 

[Swango1980]

Yes I think road planning and layouts have something to answer for.
One that annoys me is two lanes at traffic lights,left lane is turning left only.
But get one car turning right in the other lane and you have a Hugh queue while the left lane is empty.
It should be the other way around as there is nothing stopping cars turning left .
But oncoming traffic stopping you turning right.
Bonkers.

Every junction is different, and the design should account for expected traffic patterns, especially during the busy periods. Without knowing anything else, the ahead movement would use the nearside lane with left-turning traffic for the reason you describe. However, if there was a heavy left-turn and very light right-turn, from a capacity perspective it could be much more efficient to have the aheads use the offside lane with the right-turn. Especially if there is storage within the junction for right-turns to queue and/or the opposing movement is not too heavy itself. Furthermore, the location of pedestrian crossings can have an impact, especially if it is possible to have peds running in parallel with non-conflicting traffic movements rather than requiring an all red pedestrian stage. It should be the sort of thing that is / should tested in modelling before a final design is produced, although whether that always happens is another question entirely.

Anyway, only reason I saw this was I see Smart Highways are on the news again. Seems increasingly difficult to agree that these are any safer than motorways with a hard shoulder. Perhaps the government are just too invested in them, along with the companies that are involved, to admit they are less safe that before (along with any legal implications that may involve).

 

[Golfmmad]

Yes I think road planning and layouts have something to answer for.
One that annoys me is two lanes at traffic lights,left lane is turning left only.
But get one car turning right in the other lane and you have a Hugh queue while the left lane is empty.
It should be the other way around as there is nothing stopping cars turning left .
But oncoming traffic stopping you turning right.
Bonkers.

There is a similar junction round here. Traffic lights, left hand lane has marked arrow to turn left And straight on plus a straight on arrow in right hand lane. Most traffic will queue in the right lane leaving the left lane clear, crazy! There are merge in arrows 50yds after junction so the planners expected both lanes to be used when going straight on.

 

[Billysboots]

Anyway, only reason I saw this was I see Smart Highways are on the news again. Seems increasingly difficult to agree that these are any safer than motorways with a hard shoulder. Perhaps the government are just too invested in them, along with the companies that are involved, to admit they are less safe that before (along with any legal implications that may involve).

You will not find a single police officer with experience in motorway policing, especially those who work in collision investigation as I did for over 20 years, who will tell you that Smart motorways are anything other than a catastrophe. That should tell you all you need to know.

And I don’t know of a single colleague nationwide who took part in any sort of consultation in the planning stages. Not one. Typical, really - if you want to drive through a project as massive and controversial as this, don’t consult with experts, particularly those who will tell you unequivocally that your plans are a crock of ?.

 

[Swango1980]

You will not find a single police officer with experience in motorway policing, especially those who work in collision investigation as I did for over 20 years, who will tell you that Smart motorways are anything other than a catastrophe. That should tell you all you need to know.

And I don’t know of a single colleague nationwide who took part in any sort of consultation in the planning stages. Not one. Typical, really - if you want to drive through a project as massive and controversial as this, don’t consult with experts, particularly those who will tell you unequivocally that your plans are a crock of ?.

Nice cheap way to boost highway capacity, put safety to one side or on the hush? Cynical I know, but it also amazes me when generally, individual junction designs and other highway issues need to go through several safety audits during the different stages of the design process, conducted by independent experts (not to say the final junction has potential issues, but it certainly irons things out immensely in most cases). So, when something as big as this is rolled out, you'd think it would undergo huge safety analysis, and probably fall at an early hurdle.

Personally, I'm all for smart motorways in the sense that they can use cameras and close lanes if any incidents are detected. But, not at the expense of removing the hard shoulder. It is like saying we are getting rid of seat belts because cars have air bags. I've never really thought about it too much, I rarely drive on them. But, when I do get thinking about it, I truly do wonder what I'd do if my car broke down on one. By sounds of it, the cameras frequently do not even detect a breakdown, so no warning is sent to drivers behind. Even if it does, there will be a lag between the breakdown, when the warning is sent and also drivers will already have passed the Variable Message Sign before the warning appears. I never even considered what someone with a disability would do. Apparently you're meant to leave your car and hop over the metal barrier. Good luck for those with mobility issues.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Apparently you're meant to leave your car and hop over the metal barrier. Good luck for those with mobility issues.

The advice is to do the same even with a hard shoulder. Easier to do in kinder weather than in the cold and rain but that is the safety advice.

 

[Swango1980]

The advice is to do the same even with a hard shoulder. Easier to do in kinder weather than in the cold and rain but that is the safety advice.

Fair enough, but I'd still rather have the safety of a hard shoulder before working out how to get over that barrier. I'm guessing there are gaps in the barrier at certain intervals, so that someone with mobility issues can get through it? If so, easier to find that gap on the hard shoulder, rather than along a live lane

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Fair enough, but I'd still rather have the safety of a hard shoulder before working out how to get over that barrier. I'm guessing there are gaps in the barrier at certain intervals, so that someone with mobility issues can get through it? If so, easier to find that gap on the hard shoulder, rather than along a live lane

Totally agree with you

 

[SaintHacker]

I've said it before and I still stick with my view, the road isn't to blame, its the idiots that use it.
We've driven for years on two and three lane dual carriageways that don't have hard shoulders, or smart technology, without worry. Whats the difference? Its still a 70mph road.
A hard shoulder is all very well if you can get to it, what if you break down ib lane 3/4 and can't get across? And if you are unlucky enough to break down in a live lane and not make it to a refuge, would you prefer to have to traffic slowed to 40/50 mph by the signs as it passes or sit on a 'safe' hard shoulder with traffic still thundering by at 70+?
I agree the technology need to be improved to respond to breakdowns quicker but once that happens then a smart road will be no more dangerous than any other. Its the bloody morons who drive on a closed lane that need removing, in my view ut should be 6 points per sign passed. Pass 2 and its a ban, end of.

 

[Rooter]

I've said it before and I still stick with my view, the road isn't to blame, its the idiots that use it.

Can leave it there. Perfect, nail on the head.