Screw club manufacturers!

[Hacker Khan]

I've just done a little extra research on club lofts for the Benross Hotspeed 2 (these were the clubs I was considering before I actually went to the store, I can't see the ones that were in the store on the web site).

American Golf website: no mention of lofts
Golf Monthly web review (inc. video clip): no mention of lofts
Today's Golfer web review: 7i loft given
Benross web site: Couldn't find any mention of the irons set, but then they have been discontinued. Hot speed 2 hybrid page did include a table with some loft figures

What won't hep in my case is that I don't know what the lofts are on my Prosimmons clubs (which were bought as a starter set including trolley bag, for £150).

So yes, I could have researched the loft (and I guess I will now that I know it's a factor to consider) but I'm not sure it would have helped me much. Besides, I had no idea what clubs they had in stock at the AG store anyway.

How about using it as a learning experience, as they say every day's a school day. After all it is well known that people learn more from their mistakes than they do from doing everything perfectly. And may be in years to come you may be able to make peace with the manufacturers after you have screwed them on a nightly basis, and possibly whisper into their ear 'thank you for making clubs that make the game easier to play and hopefully more enjoyable for the vast majority of golfers'. After all manufacturers have feelings too and they don't like being used.

And then everybody can live happily ever after.

Apart from Delc who will still be moaning about it.

 

[garyinderry]

Tbf the Benross website isn't very good. It only details one set of irons.

You can get the compete history of titleist and Mizuno iron specifications, warts and all from decades ago on their sites.

 

[Maninblack4612]

"So Mr Punter, would you like to try out our latest clubs? They are guaranteed to hit the ball further than your existing clubs, so let's try the 7-iron against your existing 7-iron." Punter tries out the new 7-iron and indeed hits it further, because it's really a 6-iron with a number 7 stamped on the bottom. He is so impressed that he buys the whole set. When he gets to actually playing with them, he finds that all his yardages have gone to pot, his short game is rubbish and he can't hit the longest iron he bought. He goes back to the retailer to buy a gap wedge to get his short game back. Thus he has been sold two unnecessary clubs. Get the picture?

He, like you, went about it the wrong way. The first iron in the bag should be the longest, straightest you can hit consistently and if you don't try it you won't know. If this means you have a 3 iron & 3 wedges so be it but gapping shouldn't be a problem. No matter how many wedges you carry you're going to be hitting half & three quarter shots anyway. I can't see the need for more than 3 wedges no matter what lofts the other clubs have. Even if the first iron is, say, 4° straighter than a "proper" one the gap between the others only has to be less than one degree different to allow the wedges to be whatever loft you want them to be. The fact is that long clubs are easier to hit and we should be happy about that, not complaining.

 

[Sweep]

I've just done a little extra research on club lofts for the Benross Hotspeed 2 (these were the clubs I was considering before I actually went to the store, I can't see the ones that were in the store on the web site).

American Golf website: no mention of lofts
Golf Monthly web review (inc. video clip): no mention of lofts
Today's Golfer web review: 7i loft given
Benross web site: Couldn't find any mention of the irons set, but then they have been discontinued. Hot speed 2 hybrid page did include a table with some loft figures

What won't hep in my case is that I don't know what the lofts are on my Prosimmons clubs (which were bought as a starter set including trolley bag, for £150).

So yes, I could have researched the loft (and I guess I will now that I know it's a factor to consider) but I'm not sure it would have helped me much. Besides, I had no idea what clubs they had in stock at the AG store anyway.

Exactly!
Even if the OP did research the lofts, it doesn't help because he doesn't know the lofts of his beginner set. He is made to believe the new clubs are ace because he is amazed at how far the 7 iron (usually the only one you are given to try) goes. End result (in the manufacturers mind) is he can't part with his money quick enough. Quite aside from it doesn't matter which club goes which distance etc etc the original post was about him feeling mislead. Well, he did feel mislead and for good reason.
As Hacker said, put it down to experience and be glad the deliberate tactic didn't work on you. As someone who IS sad enough to have a degree in golf club purchase, when I went for my fitting at Ping I told the fitter to crank the 7 iron so that I hit it 150 carry and crank every club from there. So if the 7 iron needed to be 2 degrees stronger, make them all 2 degrees stronger. Works for me.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you know your research shows your PW is now 46 as it is in my I25's as an example, logic dictates that to be have a good short game, there has to be something to bridge the gap to my SW (currently 58). That's 8 degrees and but more importantly I now have a gap between my PW which goes 100 yards and my 58 that goes 65. Off course I need a club to bridge that gap yet reading this (and apologies to Delc if I misinterpret but I don't think I have) that means I've been forced to buy an extra, unnecessary club. I totally disagree and in fact I'd go as far as to argue the additional club actually gives me more variety and options in terms of short game shots and approaches from 70-90 yards.

At the end of the day, bag set up, make and model and the lofts therein are all personal choice. If you want to learn the distances, or use a monitor, then fine. You can use the practice ground and a GPS/laser as I did or even hit balls and pace them off on the course (when it's quiet of course). The point is, not every golfer is the same and some will just guesstimate but enjoy the ease of play the new clubs give. As long as you buy new clubs, enjoy them and enjoy your golf does it make any difference whatsoever to what loft it is and how far it goes

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Exactly!
Even if the OP did research the lofts, it doesn't help because he doesn't know the lofts of his beginner set. He is made to believe the new clubs are ace because he is amazed at how far the 7 iron (usually the only one you are given to try) goes. End result (in the manufacturers mind) is he can't part with his money quick enough. Quite aside from it doesn't matter which club goes which distance etc etc the original post was about him feeling mislead. Well, he did feel mislead and for good reason.
As Hacker said, put it down to experience and be glad the deliberate tactic didn't work on you. As someone who IS sad enough to have a degree in golf club purchase, when I went for my fitting at Ping I told the fitter to crank the 7 iron so that I hit it 150 carry and crank every club from there. So if the 7 iron needed to be 2 degrees stronger, make them all 2 degrees stronger. Works for me.

so you got them to change your new clubs so they went the same distance as your old clubs ?!

 

[Sweep]

Don't know and not bothered

Only thing that matters IMO is how far I hit each club and I can work things out from there - to me it's as simple as that

But the OP is bothered and the original post was about the OP feeling mislead. Not about how far he hits each club. I am quite sure he is capable of working that out when he gets his new set.
Of course you know very well why they strengthen the lofts. You know its a sales tactic by the manufacturers, but admitting it would lose you the argument.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

If you know your research shows your PW is now 46 as it is in my I25's as an example, logic dictates that to be have a good short game, there has to be something to bridge the gap to my SW (currently 58). That's 8 degrees and but more importantly I now have a gap between my PW which goes 100 yards and my 58 that goes 65.

Err thats 12 Degrees actually

enough for 2 more wedges,

Ill get the popcorn out

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But the OP is bothered and the original post was about the OP feeling mislead. Not about how far he hits each club. I am quite sure he is capable of working that out when he gets his new set.
Of course you know very well why they strengthen the lofts. You know its a sales tactic by the manufacturers, but admitting it would lose you the argument.

Well actually they jacked up the lofts to help higher HC get the ball higher using longer shafts - all done through research and development - many have given the right answer to the lofts getting stronger on a 7 iron but it's ignored in favour of "conning the golfer". The manufacturers are actually trying to help

What does it matter if he hits an 8 iron 150 or a 7 iron 150 - as long as the golfer knows which clubs goes the distance he requires - the number on the bottom is a reference point for that golfer and that set of clubs as opposed to a golf standard

 

[Sweep]

so you got them to change your new clubs so they went the same distance as your old clubs ?!

No. I got them to change my new clubs so they went the same distance I used to hit when I was younger. It also had the added benefit of assisting greatly with gapping.

 

[Sweep]

Well actually they jacked up the lofts to help higher HC get the ball higher using longer shafts - all done through research and development - many have given the right answer to the lofts getting stronger on a 7 iron but it's ignored in favour of "conning the golfer". The manufacturers are actually trying to help

What does it matter if he hits an 8 iron 150 or a 7 iron 150 - as long as the golfer knows which clubs goes the distance he requires - the number on the bottom is a reference point for that golfer and that set of clubs as opposed to a golf standard

I thought you said you didn't know?
again, the post is not about how far he hits each club. It about whether strengthening the lofts is a misleading sales tactic

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I thought you said you didn't know?
again, the post is not about how far he hits each club. It about whether strengthening the lofts is a misleading sales tactic

Only have to read the thread to give you answers

And as been mentioned it must be a poor tactic because it appears most people know about the increased lofts in GI golf sets - it's not new news

 

[Sweep]

Only have to read the thread to give you answers

And as been mentioned it must be a poor tactic because it appears most people know about the increased lofts in GI golf sets - it's not new news

Most people, all people or just some people?
This has been well covered in the thread - which I have read - and as he says, if he doesn't know and cannot find the lofts of his starter set, or indeed the set he was considering, how does he compare? If he is relatively new to the game or isn't a golf geek he is entitled to think 7 irons have similar lofts.
As you say, it's not new news. So now those of us who are interested have had chance to catch on. I wonder how many were fooled in the first place though?
The only people being tricked here are the people who don't know there was a trick happening in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Most people, all people or just some people?
This has been well covered in the thread - which I have read - and as he says, if he doesn't know and cannot find the lofts of his starter set, or indeed the set he was considering, how does he compare? If he is relatively new to the game or isn't a golf geek he is entitled to think 7 irons have similar lofts.
As you say, it's not new news. So now those of us who are interested have had chance to catch on. I wonder how many were fooled in the first place though?
The only people being tricked here are the people who don't know there was a trick happening in the first place.

Any golf pro will be able to tell him the lofts of his current set - would take minutes and any reputable golf pro or even AG would be able to tell him the lofts of the set he is looking to purchase - all it takes is asking the question to help him compare. Indeed I got our golf pro this morning to check the lofts of two of my clubs and it was sorted within minutes

Throughout the forum I have seen one person regualry complain about the lofts on his clubs - he complain he can't hit his 4 iron because it's a loft of an old 3 iron ( yet he said he had no probs hitting an old 3 iron ) - so taking that as a snapshot and from experience of the people I play with - it's not an issue for the majority.

And it's perfect for newbies - the clubs will be helping the new golfers both in terms of length and dispersion and you don't have to be a "golf geek" to know that every single golf set is different

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I'm thinking about changing my car. Should I get one that is faster than my current one or one that has the same top speed?


Bluddy manufacturers making them faster all the time...............:sbox:

 

[patricks148]

I'm thinking about changing my car. Should I get one that is faster than my current one or one that has the same top speed?


Bluddy manufacturers making them faster all the time...............:sbox:

why not get a used blue motion VW, ive heard the fuel efficiency is excellent:rofl:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

why not get a used blue motion VW, ive heard the fuel efficiency is excellent:rofl:

No that's no good Patrick, I'll need to adjust to how far I can go between fueling stops

 

[garyinderry]

The "con" as it's described as, can also have a positive placebo effect on a player as he will feel alot more confident hitting an 8 iron from 150 than he would say hitting, in his mind, a 7 or even a 6.

Beginners don't really need a fully fledged gapped set as they don't usually have the consistency to hit specific distances. As they improve they will tend to spot where they have gaps the most and buy clubs as and when. Sure a whole set would be nice but it really isn't necessary.

I was playing to an 18 handicap before I pondered the idea of gap and lob wedges.

Even today I don't always bring my gap wedge as I don't have the room.

 

[Sweep]

Any golf pro will be able to tell him the lofts of his current set - would take minutes and any reputable golf pro or even AG would be able to tell him the lofts of the set he is looking to purchase - all it takes is asking the question to help him compare. Indeed I got our golf pro this morning to check the lofts of two of my clubs and it was sorted within minutes

Except he was at AG, see post 129 and he only noticed when he compared the clubs on the range. As far as I know, the pro didn't tell him. If he doesn't know about the variance of loft within different 7 irons, how would he know to ask?
The only crime the OP committed was he that he wasn't aware of the strengthening of lofts. Even though some might publish spec lists, the manufacturers don't advertise the stronger lofts policy. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. He actually worked it out for himself, but still the forum hung him out to dry.
Another point worth considering is that those who are not members of a club won't feel they have access to a club pro. Many would never even think about going to see the pro at their local club. This is a big problem in the industry and often overlooked. So they only consider the big stores. Most sales guys aren't going to risk losing a sale by making it clear to the customer why the new club isn't actually as good as they think. Many won't even know they can have their loft and lie checked. I know DG advertised it quite heavily, but haven't seen it since.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

AG can also tell you the lofts of each iron set

There is always a way to find out the lofts on your clubs.

And surely once hitting the clubs he would ask the question "why does this 7iron go so much further than mine"

And why wouldn't the club be as good as the numbers suggest - it's still hitting the distance it says on the screen.

And AG also offer loft and lie checks within their MOT