Screw club manufacturers!

[jpjeffery]

I tried out a set of clubs yesterday, or rather a "7" iron from that set, along with my current 7 iron.

I found I was hitting the new club 10-15 yards further. Nice one!

Nice, except for the reason I used the quote marks around the '7' in my first sentence. The reason being the new "7" iron was not just longer, but had a stronger angle to it. In other words it was more like my 6 iron! How the heck am I meant to compare that!? What is the point of buying new clubs when I'm being tricked like this?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So you didn't check the lofts on both clubs to see the difference as its common knowledge that different manufacturers possibly have different lofts on each club

 

[pokerjoke]

Since your having a rant I will have one too.
Does it flipping matter.

As long as it gives you the ball flight and result it can have anything written on it,it really doesn't matter.

 

[pokerjoke]

I tried out a set of clubs yesterday, or rather a "7" iron from that set, along with my current 7 iron.

I found I was hitting the new club 10-15 yards further. Nice one!

Nice, except for the reason I used the quote marks around the '7' in my first sentence. The reason being the new "7" iron was not just longer, but had a stronger angle to it. In other words it was more like my 6 iron! How the heck am I meant to compare that!? What is the point of buying new clubs when I'm being tricked like this?

You have not been tricked you just don't know what your looking for and your knowledge is poor of the product your looking for.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I tried out a set of clubs yesterday, or rather a "7" iron from that set, along with my current 7 iron.

I found I was hitting the new club 10-15 yards further. Nice one!

Nice, except for the reason I used the quote marks around the '7' in my first sentence. The reason being the new "7" iron was not just longer, but had a stronger angle to it. In other words it was more like my 6 iron! How the heck am I meant to compare that!? What is the point of buying new clubs when I'm being tricked like this?

The idea is not to compare 7 irons across different manufacturers. That became a waste of time about 10 years ago and if all you are doing is looking for this magical extra distance that one manufacturer has that anothers does not then you are being a bit naive. If you compare clubs in the same area (i.e. game improvers) with the same loft across manufacturers then they will go roughly the same distance if hit in the same place. Doesn't matter if it says 5,6 or 7 on the bottom, a club with 32 degrees of loft from one manufacturer will roughly go the same distance as a club with 32 degrees from another.

 

[Vardon11LDN]

You have not been tricked you just don't know what your looking for and your knowledge is poor of the product your looking for.

Ouch!

 

[Crazyface]

You have not been tricked you just don't know what your looking for and your knowledge is poor of the product your looking for.

"How to win friends and influence people" A very small book by pj

 

[ruff-driver]

"How to win friends and influence people" A very small book by pj

:clap:

 

[patricks148]

i see where you are coming from. if you are not an equipment nut like a most, how would you know a lot of 7 irons are now 6 or even 5 irons?? there is a bit of wool pulling here by manufactures esp when it comes to distance gains are concerned. one of the guys in my group had Mizuno mp60 's they were a bit worn out so fancied new clubs tried a few makes and settled on TM speed blades. he was over the moon with them as he was hitting is irons a good club further.... it wasn't till someone pointed out that the lofts where so much stronger and he was just hitting one more club effectively.


he's back using the worn out mp60 now

 

[Tashyboy]

You have not been tricked you just don't know what your looking for and your knowledge is poor of the product your looking for.

As much as it is to the point it is not to far from the truth, although I don't think the book will be a best seller.
Re lesson learned, am sure when it comes to golf,most of us have thought at some stage when buying something that " we didn't know that", it's just that sometimes we have not shared it on here and then been ripped to bits. Welcome to the real forum.
I would not be to bothered about changes in loft etc, it's what club makers have done to help us find the "perfect" club. If there were no changes we would still be playing with wood shafts.
Use this learning experience when buying other golf products IE putters, drivers etc etc.
One last piece of advice, when it comes to golf manufacturers marketing there products, the Sales pitch is something to behold. Don't get sucked into shiny products just coz. The product says it goes further, less spin, makes you look thinner. try try try before you buy.

 

[User 105]

Lets face it, it's all about distance vs dispersion.

If you have two 7i's one with cranked lofts and it flies further than the other 7i but you get the same dispersion, then it's a winner. Who cares what they have stamped on it.

 

[Sweep]

You have not been tricked you just don't know what your looking for and your knowledge is poor of the product your looking for.

To be fair the OP has been tricked, in the way the manufacturers tried to trick us all. just because some of us know about it and are used to this kind of selling doesn't mean everyone is. Most would consider it fair to compare one 7 iron with another 7 iron. It is simply a way for a manufacturer to claim their 7 iron goes further than their competitors 7 iron, when actually it's a 6 iron with a 7 stamped on the bottom. That makes it a trick. So now we all have to do our research and make sure our product knowledge is not "poor". The question is, is it right we have been put in this position by the manufacturers trying to trick us? I have every sympathy with the OP and I hope he realised before he bought the clubs. I also hope the manufacturers will one day realise this kind of selling and endless, spurious claims about distance actually does them and the image of club manufacturers no favours at all.

 

[KenL]

The problem for me is at the shorter end of the bag. I don't want a PW with 40 degrees of loft that goes about 150 yards. This makes filling the gaps more difficult where it really matters when trying to get close to the hole.

 

[Maninblack4612]

The manufacturers don't set out to "trick" customers but need to use psychology to get them to buy clubs that suit them. Modern game improvement clubs are mucheasier to hit & get airborne now than they used to be. If a golfer thinks that the longest iron he can hit consistently is a 5 iron he'll buy a 5 to PW set. If the manufacturer knows that he could hit their 4 iron well, and probably the same height as a traditional 5 iron, the manufacturer will call the 4 iron a 5 iron and adjust the lofts & lengths of the other irons accordingly. My view is that the first iron in your bag should be the longest & lowest lofted that you can hit consistently, doesn't matter what it's called.

Manufacturers have a hard time with public perception v reality. I'm a pro photographer & my cameras produce photos which blow up faultlessly to 3 feet by 2 feet. There are cheap point & shoot cameras on the market with more pixels than my professional equipment. The larger number of pixels actually detracts from the camera's performance. So why does the manufacturer do it? Because the buyers think that "more is better".

In the same way many people will buy the club's that appear to go further rather than taking time to see what really suits them.

 

[pokerjoke]

"How to win friends and influence people" A very small book by pj

To be honest the op was having a rant so I had a rant back and as someone pointed out the op probably was a bit naïve,however

If I was going to buy any product and I was paying a significant price for that product I certainly would be doing some research first.

If that product seemed to be a lot better than a supposedly similar product I would ask the question why.

As has been said many times people get caught up in the this club hits it further camp when really ball flight and dispersion would be a better option.
It really does not matter what is stamped on the bottom as long as it works and it is consistent through the set,I mean all this info is available before buying.

I am blunt but I like to tell it how it is and I like others that do the same,all this trying not to upset anyone rubbish gets on my wick:ears:

 

[Maninblack4612]

The problem for me is at the shorter end of the bag. I don't want a PW with 40 degrees of loft that goes about 150 yards. This makes filling the gaps more difficult where it really matters when trying to get close to the hole.

What I think is a good idea, & what I've done with my own clubs before, is to set the loft of, say, the 4 iron at the lowest you can handle & the length at the longest comfortable. Then adjust the wedges to the length & lofts you want and spread the length & lofts of the 5 to 9 irons evenly between the 4 & PW. That way you have slightly larger gaps between clubs but the short irons are not too straight & you don't need to carry 5 wedges. The larger gaps shouldn't be a problem, the distances between the pros' clubs are much bigger than yours will ever be.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Take a look at this thread from a week or 2 ago
http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?82808-Traditionalists-prepare-to-be-grumpy


Covers the subject in some detail

I personally think that there should be a set degree range for each club, iw PW between 45-47 degrees or whatever, so you can compare a 7 iron with your current set,
All cranking up the lofts does is create gaps at the bottom of your bag

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Some harsh repsonses here. Mot everyone is an expert, not everyone researches to the n'th degree. It seems reasonable to expect a 7 iron of one mfr to be the same loft as the 7 iron from another. The moment they start to deviate the numbers becomes irrelevant. On tv you don't hear the on course commentator say the player is using a 29° iron, they say they are using an 8 iron or a 9 iron. Same for us amateurs when we take our shots.

Now I know, as do most on this forum, that mfrs have manipulated the lofts for marketing purposes but plenty out there don't. I agree with the OP, the system is wrong and either the mfrs should agree a tolerance for a particular iron number or, like Cleveland, they should stamp the loft on each iron as well as a number.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You only need to ask or check on the manufacturers website to see the lofts of each club. Don't need to be an expert

 

[jpjeffery]

To be fair the OP has been tricked, in the way the manufacturers tried to trick us all. just because some of us know about it and are used to this kind of selling doesn't mean everyone is. Most would consider it fair to compare one 7 iron with another 7 iron. It is simply a way for a manufacturer to claim their 7 iron goes further than their competitors 7 iron, when actually it's a 6 iron with a 7 stamped on the bottom. That makes it a trick. So now we all have to do our research and make sure our product knowledge is not "poor". The question is, is it right we have been put in this position by the manufacturers trying to trick us? I have every sympathy with the OP and I hope he realised before he bought the clubs.

Thank you for your support. ;-)

I do indeed feel like I was tricked (by Benross) and that I'd essentially wasted my time. Fortunately I didn't buy the clubs, as I had spotted the stronger loft while I was trying out the club, and so was put off by it.

I also hope the manufacturers will one day realise this kind of selling and endless, spurious claims about distance actually does them and the image of club manufacturers no favours at all.

Bingo! (See above)

Benross may not have intended to trick me, but that is the net effect. They're not actually game improvement clubs if all they're doing is making a 7 iron in to a 6 iron with a different name. I could achieve the same thing by clubbing up when I'm playing a round without buying new clubs.

Golf is complicated (and hard) enough without having to also be an equipment geek. I have enough in my head already!

Lets face it, it's all about distance vs dispersion.

If you have two 7i's one with cranked lofts and it flies further than the other 7i but you get the same dispersion, then it's a winner. Who cares what they have stamped on it.

Indeed. I am actually at least as interested in the forgiveness (and from that the less dispersion) offered by the clubs, but it's more difficult, I think, to tell that with a 40 range balls divided between three 7 irons as I was doing yesterday, due to the small sample.

There are some club manufacturers who are at least trying to be a bit more honest about it:
http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+equipment/5-7547-Have_You_Noticed_What_They_Are_Doing.html