Screw club manufacturers!

[CMNI]

Having only been playing around a year with second hand clubs, I went out to get a shinny new set: 1/ to look awesome, 2/ to improve on miss hits.

In my old set I had a terrible Cobra Long Tom, my current Jetspeed 3wood, Old King cobra irons and an MD Putter.

I could hit my 3wood straighter and further off the deck than my tee'd up driver. So I new a complete overhaul was coming.

I started looking for the right deal on the right club. This just happened to be my irons, which I talked the pro down to £160 (currently still selling at £180 and discontinued). I hit the 7-iron and it went much further than my old one (I was also comparing apples for apples), but what I was looking was consistency, as a GI it was much more forgiving, went straighter and felt nice to swing.

Never in a million years would I have considered W/S before I tried them out, as I am a club house golfer and will happily admit I would rather pull a top end bag of sticks out of my car.

Thing is, golf isn't about how but rather how many.

I then picked up a driver that was much more consistent and flying further than my three (avg 260yard and 220 with the 3), and went about playing my game.

Putter came next- much better feel and now love being on and around the greens, where as before my favourite aspect of the game was bombing it off the tee.

I discovered after a few rounds that the 5i to 3w gap was way to much and filled it with a hybrid, and noticed that my PW to SW was way out in comparison to my old set. I picked up a 52 tour trusty, and now my kits complete.

Now, I got away with it because I was building a full kit and started with the irons.
But the OP was only changing his irons, so this is where the issue came from.

I have only been playing a short while, and done very little research when buying my clubs. What I do know is when it comes to changing, it will be a complete overhaul again.

My hybrid suits my game with my irons, the same hybrid may not fit in with a different set. The only way to get shinny new clubs to fit into your bag in my opinion is to buy two sets and replace like for like.

If you try out a 7iron and it consistently goes the same distance as you current but on a straighter path that's great, go for that. But if you are gaining yards with the 7 common sense will tell you you will likely gain across the set, and surely that will set alarms bells of wether you know lofts or not.

I think you need to treat your clubs as a complete bag, rather than 5-PW, Driver, 3, 5w etc.

I enjoy hitting my irons and have built a bag around them. When it comes time for a new set I look forward to doing it all again.

 

[Crow]

I gave up trying to read all the posts so apologies if it's been mentioned before but here's my suggestion as to why lofts may have been cranked.

It was said earlier that the new GI clubs have been designed to be easier to get a high launch to help the beginner.
As a result the offending high launching 7 iron with a "traditional" loft would not go as far, although for a beginner it would still be a much better choice of club as they'd hit it more consistently.

As club manufacturers believe that we're obsessed with length (and I think we can agree that this is so, particularly for beginners) the last thing they would want is for their new irons to be shorter than the last generation or their competition so they started tweaking the loft a little to offset the higher launch/shorter distance.

This would have been acceptable on its own but they've now gone further and tweaked the loft to not only get the club hitting the same distance but to hit it further and claim spurious yardage increases.
It's this last part that has, quite rightly in my view, incensed many golfers.

 

[bluewolf]

I gave up trying to read all the posts so apologies if it's been mentioned before but here's my suggestion as to why lofts may have been cranked.

It was said earlier that the new GI clubs have been designed to be easier to get a high launch to help the beginner.
As a result the offending high launching 7 iron with a "traditional" loft would not go as far, although for a beginner it would still be a much better choice of club as they'd hit it more consistently.

As club manufacturers believe that we're obsessed with length (and I think we can agree that this is so, particularly for beginners) the last thing they would want is for their new irons to be shorter than the last generation or their competition so they started tweaking the loft a little to offset the higher launch/shorter distance.

This would have been acceptable on its own but they've now gone further and tweaked the loft to not only get the club hitting the same distance but to hit it further and claim spurious yardage increases.
It's this last part that has, quite rightly in my view, incensed many golfers.

Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you, but this theory kind of ignores the fact that new technology has allowed Manufacturers to produce clubheads that hit the ball further.. I know that my current set, which has what we would refer to as "more traditional" lofts, definitely gets the ball further out there than a previous set that had the same shaft of the same length..

There are too many variables to just concentrate on loft.. It's a red herring that is being seized upon by people who have bought a set without realizing the full implications of the extra distance.. I'm currently considering dropping the 3 hybrid I currently carry as my current 4 iron goes roughly the same distance.. However, I may just keep it in the bag as it's great on still days for long par 3's..

Anyway, it's hardly the worst problem in the world is it? Fairly simple solution.. Either pick up another wedge, or learn to hit fractional shots.. Whatever gets the ball in the hole sooner..

Edit.. I've just checked and my older set actually had stronger lofts!!! Weird eh???? Bloody manufacturers.. Weakening lofts and allowing us to hit it further.. I've been conned

 

[Crow]

Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you, but this theory kind of ignores the fact that new technology has allowed Manufacturers to produce clubheads that hit the ball further.. I know that my current set, which has what we would refer to as "more traditional" lofts, definitely gets the ball further out there than a previous set that had the same shaft of the same length..

There are too many variables to just concentrate on loft.. It's a red herring that is being seized upon by people who have bought a set without realizing the full implications of the extra distance.. I'm currently considering dropping the 3 hybrid I currently carry as my current 4 iron goes roughly the same distance.. However, I may just keep it in the bag as it's great on still days for long par 3's..

Anyway, it's hardly the worst problem in the world is it? Fairly simple solution.. Either pick up another wedge, or learn to hit fractional shots.. Whatever gets the ball in the hole sooner..

Edit.. I've just checked and my older set actually had stronger lofts!!! Weird eh???? Bloody manufacturers.. Weakening lofts and allowing us to hit it further.. I've been conned

I sort of agree with your point on clubs going further but it's more their forgiveness that allows us to consistently get better distance.
My guess is that of you hit the ball out the sweet spot then the distance will be the same for older and newer clubs, where the technology helps is when we're not quite out the middle, or even way off it!

 

[delc]

Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you, but this theory kind of ignores the fact that new technology has allowed Manufacturers to produce clubheads that hit the ball further.. I know that my current set, which has what we would refer to as "more traditional" lofts, definitely gets the ball further out there than a previous set that had the same shaft of the same length..

There are too many variables to just concentrate on loft.. It's a red herring that is being seized upon by people who have bought a set without realizing the full implications of the extra distance.. I'm currently considering dropping the 3 hybrid I currently carry as my current 4 iron goes roughly the same distance.. However, I may just keep it in the bag as it's great on still days for long par 3's..

Anyway, it's hardly the worst problem in the world is it? Fairly simple solution.. Either pick up another wedge, or learn to hit fractional shots.. Whatever gets the ball in the hole sooner..

Edit.. I've just checked and my older set actually had stronger lofts!!! Weird eh???? Bloody manufacturers.. Weakening lofts and allowing us to hit it further.. I've been conned

The distance a club will hit a ball is about 85% down to loft angle and 15% down to club length (within reason). Game improvement irons have a larger sweet spot by moving weight to the perimeter of the clubhead, but that by itself does not add length, just forgiveness for off centre strikes. The other things you can play around with are the flexibility of the shaft and where its kick point is, or hot faces which flex slightly and then rebound when a golf ball is struck, adding to energy transfer. However the latter two only have a marginal effect. Otherwise it's purely down to the physics of energy transfer. Strengthening the lofts is the only thing you can do to significantly increase distance!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

They used to be 6 irons, but now seem to be 7 irons because they do the same thing. A couple or so years ago there were loads of single 6 irons for sale on eBay, presumably because retailers were selling them off. A 6 iron with 5-iron length and loft might be a bit too difficult for some punters to hit straight!

Nope all the demo clubs I have used have definitely had a large 6 on the bottom. I use that loft and yardage as a starting point and my fits are worked from there. At the end of the day Del at our level does it really make a difference. Forget what loft it is and just stand there and hit it. If you can't hit it learn to do so

 

[delc]

Nope all the demo clubs I have used have definitely had a large 6 on the bottom. I use that loft and yardage as a starting point and my fits are worked from there. At the end of the day Del at our level does it really make a difference. Forget what loft it is and just stand there and hit it. If you can't hit it learn to do so

How many years is it since you last went to a demo day? I haven't been given anything other than a 7 iron for years!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How many years is it since you last went to a demo day? I haven't been given anything other than a 7 iron for years!

Titliest Demo day the other week - all 6 irons

 

[bluewolf]

Titliest Demo day the other week - all 6 irons

Last one I went to was last year, but that was 6 irons as well.. I think I'd prefer a 7 iron though.. I keep hitting it over the back net of the range with those pesky 6 irons.. Can't explain it really..

 

[upsidedown]

7 irons at our demo days

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Last one I went to was last year, but that was 6 irons as well.. I think I'd prefer a 7 iron though.. I keep hitting it over the back net of the range with those pesky 6 irons.. Can't explain it really..

Went to Cally, Ping, TM, Titleist and Yonex demo days last year. Six irons throughout

 

[BTatHome]

Just love it when someone adds some percentages and stats into their discussion to make it all so much believable ... and yet its still made up nonsense.

 

[delc]

To put it in simple terms, the more oblique and below centre the strike due to loft, the more energy goes into backspin and height, and less in driving the ball forward. Hence more loft always equals less distance, everything else such as clubhead speed staying constant.

 

[Sweep]

AG can also tell you the lofts of each iron set

There is always a way to find out the lofts on your clubs.

And surely once hitting the clubs he would ask the question "why does this 7iron go so much further than mine"

And why wouldn't the club be as good as the numbers suggest - it's still hitting the distance it says on the screen.

And AG also offer loft and lie checks within their MOT

AG can tell you the lofts, but they didn't.

There is always the way to find out the lofts on your clubs, but you would only need to if you knew about the stronger loft policy.

He did ask the question on why it went further and worked it out for himself.

No-one, as you well know, is disputing the club is as good as the numbers suggest. At the risk of repeating myself, that is not why the OP felt mislead.

He wasn't getting an MOT, but even so, why didn't AG tell him about the stronger lofts and longer shaft? Probably for the same reason the manufacturers didn't either. I mean, why talk yourself out of a sale?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To put it in simple terms, the more oblique and below centre the strike due to loft, the more energy goes into backspin and height, and less in driving the ball forward. Hence more loft always equals less distance, everything else such as clubhead speed staying constant.

Did you know the lofts on the Speedbladz were stronger before you bought them ?

 

[delc]

Did you know the lofts on the Speedbladz were stronger before you bought them ?

I sort of assumed that they would be about the same as my Ping i15 irons, which are also reasonably modern clubs. I now know better! By the way, TM are not the only manufacturers bringing out irons with ever stronger lofts and longer shafts to give more distance from given numbered irons. Even Ping are doing it! Every recent evolution of the G and i series seems to have a degree taken off the lofts and 1/4" added to the lengths of the shafts. Guess they have to do this to keep up in the distance stakes with TM!

 

[351DRIVER]

The distance a club will hit a ball is about 85% down to loft angle and 15% down to club length (within reason). Game improvement irons have a larger sweet spot by moving weight to the perimeter of the clubhead, but that by itself does not add length, just forgiveness for off centre strikes. The other things you can play around with are the flexibility of the shaft and where its kick point is, or hot faces which flex slightly and then rebound when a golf ball is struck, adding to energy transfer. However the latter two only have a marginal effect. Otherwise it's purely down to the physics of energy transfer. Strengthening the lofts is the only thing you can do to significantly increase distance!

Sweet spot is not an area, there is a tiny point where the best strike can be had.
Golf clubs do not have a big sweet spot ever, you can get a pretty good result near the sweet spot on Game Improvement clubs but the sweet spot is and always has been just that a spot.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I sort of assumed that they would be about the same as my Ping i15 irons, which are also reasonably modern clubs. I now know better! By the way, TM are not the only manufacturers bringing out irons with ever stronger lofts and longer shafts to give more distance from given numbered irons. Even Ping are doing it! Every recent evolution of the G and i series seems to have a degree taken off the lofts and 1/4" added to the lengths of the shafts. Guess they have to do this to keep up in the distance stakes with TM!

So you have been playing for 50 years ?

Seem to have a vast amount of experience about all things to do with golf no doubt read lots of articles and magazines and this forum

Yet assumed the lofts were the same ?!

Did you find out after you had them CF or whilst you were trying them ?

 

[richart]

Just love it when someone adds some percentages and stats into their discussion to make it all so much believable ... and yet its still made up nonsense.

100% agree with you.

 

[delc]

Sweet spot is not an area, there is a tiny point where the best strike can be had.
Golf clubs do not have a big sweet spot ever, you can get a pretty good result near the sweet spot on Game Improvement clubs but the sweet spot is and always has been just that a spot.

One good thing I will say about my TM Speedblades is that any strike that is not a shank or completely off the toe goes pretty straight and a reasonable distance. This is due to perimeter weighting and a fairly wide sole, which gives some degree of gear effect. I started playing golf when Ping were only just coming onto the scene, and most irons were still wafer thin blades. With those you knew all about off centre hits, because they stung your hands, went off in the wrong direction and lost a lot of distance!