Screw club manufacturers!

[TheJezster]

Nope not just you.

To be honest this thing about manufacturers ever putting loft on their clubs is never going to happen across the board. There will certainly never be an industry "standard". The information is out there and it's down to an individual whether they buy off the shelf, either before or after looking at lofts, go for a C/F and get everything spec'd out or simply by and play with whatever takes your fancy.

You could well be right, and personally I think it's a shame but hey ho. I know when I got fitted for mine by Cleveland (thanks GM) I couldn't care about lofts I just cared what I hit it like. That being said I'm not sure I knew that some manufacturers jacked their lofts up so would have probably assumed everyone was the same. The fitting was awesome tho and if I next get a set I'll definitely go through that process again. I still might get some 588 wedges but my tommy armour sw is a memento from my US road trip that I don't want to let go of...

 

[Tiger]

Let's just say for arguments sake all manufacturers produce clubs of the exact same specification. I play Brand X irons and I go to try Brand Y. Wow Brand Y goes 10 yards further and they are easier to hit. I'm going to buy brand Y.

Scenario 2 same scenario but Brand Ys loft is 2 degrees stronger. Am I now not going to buy brand Y because the loft is stronger?!?!?

 

[TheJezster]

But why would it be better regulated ?

Forcing manufacturers to be the same removes healthy competition

A lot of lofts are stronger for some irons to counter various shafts - there is so many great variables out there giving people so much choice - it's then up to people to research their choice because that's common sense for anyone forking out a good smack of money.

The companies are providing a product - it's how they manufacture their club - and all that should matter to people if how they perform with the clubs.

There is no sane reason to have all the clubs universal

I won't get embroiled in an argument with you, but I will say one thing. In YOUR opinion. And calling someone else's side of a debate "insane" is not a smart way to play your hand, because that's what you just did.
I can't debate like that, there will be no sensible outcome, it will result in name calling and shouting. Good luck with the thread, it has been an interesting one...

 

[Maninblack4612]

A three series BMW is a three series. It comes with various engine sizes, but remains a three series. You buy one, but the performance can vary. It's still a three series.


A seven iron is a weight. Not a loft, not a distance, not a length of shaft. There is no guarantee of performance. It is what it is, within limits, but the performance can vary. You buy the one you want. The one that fits the bill.

The only limitations are the ones you put on it.

It's only weight because most 7 irons are roughly the same length and to give an acceptable swingweight the weight of the club has to go up down as the number of the club does the same. I would say that the number of the club is decided mainly by its length and the weight it needs to be is dictated by the length.

 

[delc]

A three series BMW is a three series. It comes with various engine sizes, but remains a three series. You buy one, but the performance can vary. It's still a three series.


A seven iron is a weight. Not a loft, not a distance, not a length of shaft. There is no guarantee of performance. It is what it is, within limits, but the performance can vary. You buy the one you want. The one that fits the bill.

The only limitations are the ones you put on it.

A 7-iron has a certain head weight to give the correct swing weight for the length of shaft, not because it is an intrinsic value in itself!

 

[Thustwest]

I'm finding some of this hard to believe . . .

The OP has been a forum member since 2012, made 144 posts and has never heard of Delc?

Seriously though, I thought everyone knew the numbers on the bottom were just to distinguish one club in your bag from another. The one with a 7 will generally go a little further than the one with an 8. Where has it ever been written that the lofts have to be the same. Far from the manufacturers conning us, they actually spend millions to tell us how different their new clubs are to the old ones / competitors ones etc.

It's been said before but how could it possibly matter if the lofts are stronger or weaker from set to set? As long as the gaps for each set are consistent?

 

[delc]

The only reason the manufacturers put loft numbers on wedges, is because the wedge game, especially when you get up to 52 to 60+ degree is not about distance. So they don't have to try the de-lofting trick and it wouldn't work if they did.
Its interesting that a lot of posters on this thread have quite rightly made the point that the OP should be less concerned with distance anyway, and should concentrate more on dispersion. Maybe, instead of telling the customer, we should be telling the manufacturers who are so obsessed with claims of extra distance, they are prepared to try this kind of practice to convince the gullible public.

You talk about distance and dispersion, but isn't gapping between clubs also an important consideration? In a traditional set of irons for a good club golfer, a PW would hit the ball about 100-110 yards, and each club below that would add 10-12 yards. So you never had that big a gap between clubs. Some of my younger and fitter friends can hit a modern 44 degree PW at least 150 yards, as they should be able to do as it's about the same spec as an old time 8 iron, so what do you do for shorter shots? Sand Wedges have remained at 54-56 degrees loft because they need that to fulfill their primary purpose of hitting balls out of bunkers. So you end up with a 10-12 degree difference between the SW and the PW, which is probably 50-60 yards for said golfers. Even a Gap Wedge doesn't totally fill that gap. I have a 20 yard difference between my TM 8 and 7 irons, but even when I can get the ball airborne with my 4 iron, it goes less distance than my 5 iron!

 

[jpjeffery]

OK, so we have established that the OP has not done a degree course at Oxford on buying golf clubs. Like the rest of the population, he has probably got better things to do ( almost certainly, if he is only just getting round to spending his 2014 birthday money ). Well, now that the forum has hung him out to dry for not being a complete geek who spends all his time in his bedroom pouring over golf mags and salivating over shineys, let's think for a minute on why modern lofts are stronger in each club. Obviously because the manufacturers want you to believe their irons eg 7 iron, go further than their competitors iron of the same spec eg 7 iron. Except it's not the same spec is it? So at best it's an attempt at tricking the customer. That and the fact that this practice makes it harder to establish which clubs are the best for him is all he was complaining about.
Now, can I get back to my monthly mag?
Phwoah! Look at the grooves on that!

Brilliant. As you have rightly surmised, I am not a golf geek, I just want some better clubs (I think!)

 

[jpjeffery]

When did you actually find out the lofts were stronger?

When I was at the American Golf range and I compared the Benross 7i with my own 7i. The Benross club was also about 1/4" longer.

 

[garyinderry]

When I was at the American Golf range and I compared the Benross 7i with my own 7i. The Benross club was also about 1/4" longer.

So the guy at American golf told you about the lofts. that is what he should have done.

Longer clubs and stronger lofts is not a new phenomenon. It has been gradually happening for decades.

I have clubs in my dads garage which have even weaker lofts than todays blades, shorter shafts and even thinner shafts.


You can only really hit as well as your actual strike and club speed will allow. Manufactures have tight tolerances to work within to keep clubs legal. What they are trying to do is fine tune these things such as loft, cog, face thickness, length of shaft etc to make it as easy as possible for the player to launch the ball, provide a level of forgiveness and ultimately good length.

 

[Sweep]

I'm still unsure when it was decided that manufacturers are trying to "con" people

Why did they crank the lofts then?

 

[Slab]

Seriously who's taking their 48" TV down to currys for a comparison on a new 48" model just because they're the same size screen! And how many research & read the entire specs of the new TV prior to purchase!

It just doesn't happen in the mass market but the TV in the shop will be displayed with a ton of marketing and optimum conditions such as black walls, effective lighting etc and no ones up in arms about it, its just marketing. That new TV wont be as good once you get it home because most of us don't decorate/light our homes to maximum its performance

We've some on the thread who think that the modern manufacture & retail of irons is a con-trick and others who think its all the buyers fault for not being astute enough

Is anyone likely to move their opinion? I guess not its the internet after all

2. Yes, marketing departments will put their products in the most favourable light & generally within the rules
3. No, every buyer does not research the complete specs on every purchaser they make (inc non-golf purchases) & even buy stuff untried

Surely no one is surprised by either of the above two statements

Maybe the ideal scenario falls somewhere between the poles i.e instead of a forlorn attempt to standardise loft on any iron, the loft should be stamped on the club so the buyer doesn't have to research it...

But would this actually make any difference to the majority. Lets assume for a moment it was stamped on and I'm thinking of hybrids/fairways & drivers here, almost without fail every one has the loft on the head plus the weight in grams of the shaft, but how many buyers are actually using the shaft weight data to compare to their existing club or is it only the minority of ultra keen or CF buyers who even look at it

Most will buy a model of driver with stock shaft and it'll be based on how they hit it on a brief test against other new sticks and maybe their existing club, and while the loft may be the same as their current kit it might be the only similarity between the two, so is loft still a fair measure for making comparisons on a golf club (& I mean fair to both the buyer and retailer)

I read that the only purpose of irons is to fill the distance gap between the shortest wood and longest wedge (ideally at evenly spaced increments) and that seems fairly logical

If the above is true why do golfers replacing their irons lean towards buying the one that travels furthest from the current. Isn't that the last club you'd choose unless you're replacing top & bottom clubs too (then it doesn't matter how far it goes in comparison) Surely the test hits should be with the longest iron


Ideally retailers shouldn't put so much effort into excluding the loft data at POS, it just makes them seem guilty and consumers should be a little less focused on loft on its own when comparing kit, it just makes them seem ill-informed

 

[BTatHome]

If manufacturers are trying to con people then they must be very very bad at doing it, as if you select a major manufacturer (I say major only because they have more models to compare) then you'll find almost all the models have diffentent specs of loft,length.

They sell different models with different characteristics and many of them are speced according to the market place they are selling to, or even within their own portfolio.

Obvious solution is get fit for your irons, then you can have whatever loft , length you want ... and as a byproduct you'll get a set that works for you.

 

[Smiffy]

Prior to getting my new TM's I used to hit a 7 iron on the 9th at Blackmoor.
I now hit an 8 iron.
I can also hit my new 4 iron sweet as a nut, better than I have ever hit a 4 iron before.
Why on earth should I feel conned????

 

[Tiger]

Prior to getting my new TM's I used to hit a 7 iron on the 9th at Blackmoor.
I now hit an 8 iron.
I can also hit my new 4 iron sweet as a nut, better than I have ever hit a 4 iron before.
Why on earth should I feel conned????

:thup: I've given up mate people have got a bee in their bonnet and are refusing to see the bigger picture. More forgiving easier to hit clubs. My hybrids, irons and wedges are tools to get me as close to the pin as possible from 200 yards and in. My woods are to get me as far down the fairway aa I need to be. If I'm hitting driver that's where I care about distance. Irons and wedges are precision tools...

 

[TheJezster]

I read this, this morning. It's quite an interesting article, probably worth a read in conjunction with this thread. It was written around 16 years ago but there is a 2010 addendum at the end. It won't make anyone change their mind but it was interesting to read http://www.leaderboard.com/loftinfo.htm

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why did they crank the lofts then?

Don't know and not bothered

Only thing that matters IMO is how far I hit each club and I can work things out from there - to me it's as simple as that

 

[bluewolf]

Why did they crank the lofts then?

They're not all cranked. Another question would be - Why do they crank the lofts on SGI and GI clubs, but tend to stay pretty static in the "Players" irons?

Note - I do appreciate that some players irons have slightly cranked lofts, but the trend is that the more helpful the iron is designed to be, the more likely it is that the lofts will be cranked.

edit - just checked and my PW is 47*. The GI set from the same range is 44*.

 

[delc]

I read this, this morning. It's quite an interesting article, probably worth a read in conjunction with this thread. It was written around 16 years ago but there is a 2010 addendum at the end. It won't make anyone change their mind but it was interesting to read http://www.leaderboard.com/loftinfo.htm

Please read this link because it covers the subjects of loft creep and bundling, so that manufacturers can sell you clubs you can't use and require you buy extra clubs that are useful, such as gap wedges. It is worth noting from the table of lofts that my 20 degree TM 4 iron is pretty much the same spec as a 1985 2 iron, so no wonder I can't hit it!

 

[patricks148]

The same loft is irrelevant though. He hit the 7 iron further than his current 7 iron. Same loft, stronger loft is totally irrelevant. Logic dictates that if my 7 iron goes further my other clubs will go further. The issue you said he had wasn't being 'mislead'. It was that his new 4 iron and PW went too far. Surely he could of figured that out when he was fitted

who said he got fitted... he went to try some clubs like a lot do and just hit one iron which was a 7, he would have compared his with this and that why he got them. he didn't find out the lofts were cranked until some one in our roll up told him some time later.

the result of this he felt misled, his opinion and i see where he and the Op are coming from. we are entitled to our opinion.