Scratch golf is course independent

[Backsticks]

Just as an aside, course difficulty has nothing whatsoever to do with the difficulty of reaching scratch, or the level of golf of scratch players in different clubs.
Scratch is scratch. Full stop.

You're gonna have to explain the logic behind that one mate.

If the course has been rated correctly and if the handicapping committees are equally diligent there surely shouldn't be a difference. Whether the first two premises hold is I guess doubtful. One person may be retaining their handicap based largely on competition scores often on unfamiliar courses and another on social golf on their home course.

Again, not to hijack the other thread. But all scratch handicaps, are by definition, equally scratch.

 

[Backsticks]

I am with Mel Smooth on that one. Please explain.

Years ago when I was a better player I may have got to scratch on a couple of the courses I played and would have got no where near it on others.

 

[Backsticks]

There is nothing to explain.
Or no more than 2+2=4.
Or that 0=0.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

If a course has 6 par 5’s a good player is more likely to have birdies than one without any par 5’s.
Thus, course dependent!

 

[Backsticks]

Is this really happening

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Is this really happening

Yes, you are wrong again.
It’s like a hobby for you, congrats

 

[Backache]

Again, not to hijack the other thread. But all scratch handicaps, are by definition, equally scratch.

By definition they are all scratch by design these players should be of an equivalent standard.
Does it always hold true?
As other thread I guess it depends on the course rating being accurate and the players and committees ensuring equivalent cards are returned.
Is the former true?
Lou Stagner in one of his news letters after looking at the Arrcos data base found that your differential was more likely to be better on a harder course than an easier course suggesting that scratch may be easier to attain on a difficult course.

 

[Bratty]

If I play off scratch at my home course, I'm a scratch golfer. Whether I always play to scratch at other courses is an irrelevance, surely.
I'm a 9 handicapper at my place. But I can play to a 5 handicap elsewhere and a 19 handicap elsewhere too. But I'm still a 9 handicapper.

 

[wjemather]

If a course has 6 par 5’s a good player is more likely to have birdies than one without any par 5’s.
Thus, course dependent!

Par has precisely nothing to do with being a scratch golfer.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Lets' put 100 scratch golfers from England on a plane, send them to 'nooo yoik' for 12 months and let them play Bethpage Black from the tips every weekend.

Will they all come back playing off scratch?

 

[Deleted member 25575]

I think the issue is more not having got heads round the new system.
Scratch does not mean you play off 0 on every course you play.
Play at Bethpage Black off the back tees and you’ll get to plenty shots, play your local muni off the reds and you’ll likely be giving shots to the course.

 

[Crow]

If a course has 6 par 5’s a good player is more likely to have birdies than one without any par 5’s.
Thus, course dependent!

The course rating should reflect that and it SHOULD have a CR lower than par, I'm with Backsticks on this one.

 

[Backsticks]

Lets' put 100 scratch golfers from England on a plane, send them to 'nooo yoik' for 12 months and let them play Bethpage Black from the tips every weekend.

Will they all come back playing off scratch?

Most unlikely, but that would be the case whatever golf course in the world they played for the 12 months.
Natural variation for 100 scratch golfers will not have them all stay as scratch over a year.
But the spread of handicaps they come back from BPB would be the same as it would from any other course.

 

[wjemather]

Scratch golfers are players with a handicap index of 0.0 regardless of the course(s) they obtained their counting differentials on.

That assessment is based around a 'model scratch golfer', but real players can vary quite significantly from that model. As a result, wayward long hitters might struggle on short, tight courses, and accurate short hitters might struggle on long, open courses.

This doesn't make the ratings (or the model) wrong or flawed, because the vast majority of players fall within acceptable margins.

 

[D-S]

Lets' put 100 scratch golfers from England on a plane, send them to 'nooo yoik' for 12 months and let them play Bethpage Black from the tips every weekend.

Will they all come back playing off scratch?

If they can 8 times out of every 20 attempts shoot an average of 78, then yes. I assume New York have an off season, due to snow, so they wouldn’t be able to play every weekend for 12 months.

 

[wjemather]

Lou Stagner in one of his news letters after looking at the Arrcos data base found that your differential was more likely to be better on a harder course than an easier course suggesting that scratch may be easier to attain on a difficult course.

This is unquestionably the case for longer hitters, since ratings are heavily weighted by length.

It should also be remembered that Lou Stagner is in the business of selling more distance, so his focus is often there.

 

[TheDiablo]

This is unquestionably the case for longer hitters, since ratings are heavily weighted by length.

It should also be remembered that Lou Stagner is in the business of selling more distance, so his focus is often there.

Is he?

What skin does Arccos have in players trying to hit it further?

 

[wjemather]

Is he?

What skin does Arccos have in players trying to hit it further?

He's also a brand ambassador for various manufacturers, including Titleist.

 

[Backache]

This is unquestionably the case for longer hitters, since ratings are heavily weighted by length.

It should also be remembered that Lou Stagner is in the business of selling more distance, so his focus is often there.

His suggestion was that it held true over a wide range of golfers, he wasn't focusing on length in his article.
I don't even recall him saying it was easier with Titleist though he may have done.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

The course rating should reflect that and it SHOULD have a CR lower than par, I'm with Backsticks on this one.

Being the operative word