Scottish v English football

Val

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Up until Tuesday I was pretty confident I'd see Hibs in the lower leagues for a good few years, but seeing how Stubbs has radically changed the style and confidence within the squad so rapidly, and given there's chat of a couple of the better Everton youth players coming up for a year, I'm far more optimistic of our chances.Especially given how poor I found The Rangers.Very average and I think they'll struggle.McCoist must be the worst Rangers manager ever.

Wrt to lower Celtc support travelling due to being poorer, I'm pretty sure that the loss of away support would be met by an increase in home support given the chance of competing, of lower levels of support meaning lower policing costs, or less TV games meaning more folk actually going to games and spending money.Depends how you see it I suppose and there is good arguments for both.

Scottish football needs to re adjust, become closer to the Swedish or Danish model instead of trying to be a smaller version of English upper leagues.Outside the to 10 teams there shouldn't be full time footballers and north/south regional leagues should replace the current set up lower down.Celtc/Rangers finding a suitable way out of Scottish football would be ideal, both for them and the clubs left behind.

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers (if you take their recent troubles aside) have outgrown Scottish football, Celtic at home in the past have had a larger attendance than all other senior games in Scotland combined. That is not healthy.

How do we fix it? Who know's, plenty have tried. Without Celtic or Rangers the leagues will be more competitive but will it bring in more money? Will sponsors invest? Will it improve the standard of football? They likely answer in most cases will be no.
 

Adi2Dassler

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How do we fix it? Who know's, plenty have tried. Without Celtic or Rangers the leagues will be more competitive but will it bring in more money? Will sponsors invest? Will it improve the standard of football? They likely answer in most cases will be no.

The fix is less money, not more.
 

gdunc79

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Can someone tell me in a couple of sentences why Swansea and Cardiff can play in the English leagues but there appears to be such a huge obstacle to Rangers and Celtic joining? Serious question!
 
D

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Can someone tell me in a couple of sentences why Swansea and Cardiff can play in the English leagues but there appears to be such a huge obstacle to Rangers and Celtic joining? Serious question!

Purely a a question of history.

At the time the Welsh clubs Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham joined the Football League it did not require approval from outside.

A similar move these days would require UEFA approval and they have indicated they would not sanction any further cases of clubs playing in leagues outside their "footballing" nation. These days Berwick Rangers would have to play within the English pyramid.

On top of that it is extremely unlikely that sufficient English clubs would agree as they would not wish to dilute their share of the comparative​ wealth in the English game.
 

gdunc79

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Purely a a question of history.

At the time the Welsh clubs Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham joined the Football League it did not require approval from outside.

A similar move these days would require UEFA approval and they have indicated they would not sanction any further cases of clubs playing in leagues outside their "footballing" nation. These days Berwick Rangers would have to play within the English pyramid.

On top of that it is extremely unlikely that sufficient English clubs would agree as they would not wish to dilute their share of the comparative​ wealth in the English game.

Thank you.

Will just have to hope that UEFA change their stance at some point in the near future.
 
D

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Based on what? Sure those in charge of EPL would take them over Burnley, QPR and Hull for example.

Why?

The TV deals would be unlikely to be any bigger, Scottish domestic market is pretty small and those who would be likely to subscribe to Sky already do so. Crowd sizes are not an issue to the EPL.

It would take many years of the additional income before Celtic could compete with the top six, could even face relegation initially. As for Rangers they are not even in the Premier League in Scotland.

Truth is the Old Firm might need the EPL, the EPL does not need the Old Firm.
 
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Foxholer

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How about just that the EPL don't want them?

I believe it's mutual too. Scottish football is/was strong enough to support a reasonable quality league.

And logistics comes into it too. Welsh grounds are probably little further away for many English teams than other English ones, whereas Scottish grounds are a long way away for the vast majority of English clubs (save Carlisle!)
 

FairwayDodger

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Based on what? Sure those in charge of EPL would take them over Burnley, QPR and Hull for example.

Based on that it's been talked to death for many years, discussed at EPL board level etc and there is simply no appetite for it at all. And who can blame them - what would Celtic or Rangers add to the premiership? Maybe a few years ago a case could have been made but not now.
 

Val

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I believe it's mutual too. Scottish football is/was strong enough to support a reasonable quality league.

And logistics comes into it too. Welsh grounds are probably little further away for many English teams than other English ones, whereas Scottish grounds are a long way away for the vast majority of English clubs (save Carlisle!)

Manchester to Glasgow is of similar mileage as Manchester to London, and there are many Premiership and Championship clubs in the North West. Distance doesn't really come into it.

The main point is, Celtic and Rangers are bigger clubs than at least 75% of the clubs in the Premiership and those smaller clubs are scared of losing revenue as if both got into the Premiership the 2 clubs are missing out.
 
D

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what would Celtic or Rangers add to the premiership?

I am glad that it is a Scot finally asking this question.

Love it or loathe it (and I tend towards the latter) the EPL was set up by English clubs for the benefit of English clubs. It was never intended to be a British League.

The participation of Swansea and, last year, Cardiff was, as I said previously, a quirk of history.

Also, at a time when there is talk of independence or, at least, further devolution for Scotland there is probably even less appetite for this among English football followers.
 

HomerJSimpson

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I am glad that it is a Scot finally asking this question.

Love it or loathe it (and I tend towards the latter) the EPL was set up by English clubs for the benefit of English clubs. It was never intended to be a British League.

The participation of Swansea and, last year, Cardiff was, as I said previously, a quirk of history.

Also, at a time when there is talk of independence or, at least, further devolution for Scotland there is probably even less appetite for this among English football followers.

If Scotland become independent its a mute argument as UEFA won't allow clubs from different countries to play in other leagues. I'm surprised if they would sanction any move towards the old firm in the PL if the plan ever got off the floor anyway. Would they want to go ahead without the prospect of European football as UEFA would ensure they were sanctioned if they still went ahead
 
D

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If Scotland become independent its a mute argument as UEFA won't allow clubs from different countries to play in other leagues. I'm surprised if they would sanction any move towards the old firm in the PL if the plan ever got off the floor anyway. Would they want to go ahead without the prospect of European football as UEFA would ensure they were sanctioned if they still went ahead

That is the point, independence or not, UEFA would not sanction it.

In the eyes of the football authorities the UK is four separate countries as each has its own football association and they are, in turn, individually affiliated to UEFA & FIFA.
It is to those national associations that the leagues have to be registered.

UEFA have already indicated that they will not, in the future, approve clubs located geographically under the control of one association joining a league located in another country.

Therefore, the EPL does not wish to consider the Old Firm joining because of the broader implications. Who needs the hassle?
 

Doon frae Troon

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We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.
 
D

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We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.


No thanks

Believe there was a GB team in the Olympics - didn't do too great
 

Slime

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We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.

You'd probably find that view is only supported by those from Scotland and Wales because it would give them a team to cheer for that had a chance of qualifying for something.
English folk already have one.


Slime.
 
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