Scottish v English football

[HomerJSimpson]

Here's a slight tangent that came to me earlier. As I see it, the premier league, for the lower echelon sides, struggle to get regular competitive football, struggling against the top three or four sides and only competing against the other sides around them. Why not expand the league, including say another six-eight from the Championship and get rid of to all degrees an elongated round robin event as they play four times.

Expand the Championship but the same number from the division one and the same with the bottom tier, allowing a few of the highland league sides (assuming grounds are up to standard). As I see it, the bigger table gives more sides more competition. I'd be interested to know if this has ever been muted or would it work. I know some (not necessarily Scottish) on here will no doubt have a raft of negatives and no doubt the facts and figures to back it up but it seemed a logical move

 

[chris661]

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.

I rally struggling to see the point you are attempting to make

After the taylor report teams had to go all seater - that brought the amount of people able to watch the game down

Clubs can't afford to pay 400 mill for 80000 all seater stadiums so build more manageable size stadium and less expensive

It's extremely clear to most people why attendances at football matches have reduced since the Taylor report.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think that really does show how little you really know

The best players will not end up in the US - football will always be behind - baseball, basketball, American Football , Ice Hockey - the sports ingrained into American culture. They are already playing high wages but only for a certain amount of people because American sports use the wage cap within their sports.

Football is not mainstream in the USA - people have been trying to increase the appeal for nearly 40 years now and it hasn't worked.

As for the crowds - their stadiums are bigger and the attendances at UK grounds has reduced dramatically over the years due to safety reasons - but I would expect most would know that

Sorry but I think that is (insert word as appropriate). I have relatives in the US who are big sports fans. The number of deaths and serious (life changing) injuries in American Football in junior and high school games is increasing and many parents are seeing football as a preferred sport of choice. There is a big increase in the number of clubs in the 12-18 bracket and participation for both boys and girls increases as MLS soccer gets ever bigger.

Baseball is struggling. Crowds are down at many franchises and many are finding it all rather boring (unless your a complete statto). The demographics of the crowds are quite high and it isn't attracting youngsters to watch and if they don't watch they won't play. Basketball is still a hugely popular sport but only in organised environment like school and not that many clubs (certainly in the SD area).

My family are actively involved at county level at running the football and they are struggling to accommodate those wanting to play full time. Apparently the situation is the same across most of San Diego (I can only comment on the areas I've been told about) but would hazard a guess it isn't an isolated incident

 

[Foxholer]

Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.

That actually puts even more pressure on Football Clubs - as the expense of building even an appropriately sized stadium is exponentially greater because of the pressure for residential housing! US has about 6 times the population and over 60 times the land mass - so little such pressure!

The Taylor Report certainly knobbled the concept of massive attendances - and the ability of the associated infrastructure to support them - and rightly so too! Broadcasting (Sky) has also enabled fans to watch their team without the need for attendance, (as small) part of the reason why Sky pay such large amounts for the rights.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

To be honest outside the PL, and some footballing hotspots like Birmingham and Leeds, is there really a need for large stadia? Most clubs are part of their community and certainly the lower down the leagues they cater adequately for those wanting to attend aside for the once in a blue moon games against sides from higher divisions. My own club Fulham only has a capacity c25,000 but we weren't always full for every PL game. Why would we want to hassle of wanting to build a bigger stadium or fighting endless legal battles to improve the Cottage. Now we're a championship side again, the stadium is more than adequate. We're not alone in that. Look at Norwich, Stoke, Wigan, West Brom etc. None are or were full every game

 

[JCW]

Arsenal has a waiting list just like my golf club and iys a long one

 

[Foxholer]

Here's a slight tangent that came to me earlier. As I see it, the premier league, for the lower echelon sides, struggle to get regular competitive football, struggling against the top three or four sides and only competing against the other sides around them. Why not expand the league, including say another six-eight from the Championship and get rid of to all degrees an elongated round robin event as they play four times.

Expand the Championship but the same number from the division one and the same with the bottom tier, allowing a few of the highland league sides (assuming grounds are up to standard). As I see it, the bigger table gives more sides more competition. I'd be interested to know if this has ever been muted or would it work. I know some (not necessarily Scottish) on here will no doubt have a raft of negatives and no doubt the facts and figures to back it up but it seemed a logical move

I believe expansion of some kind was considered some time ago but rejected on the basis that it would actually dilute the 'quality' - which is what I believe would be the case.

The current numbers work with a 2 home/2 away. It would need to be a large increase (and dilution) to go to a single home/away format. The quality is dire now; it would be even worse in that style!

Now, the 2 leagues are competitive, if not high quality!

 

[MegaSteve]

Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.

Don't think there were many 'armchair fans' in them times... If you wanted to watch footie you had to attend a match...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm surprised you are surprised as the English teams continue to buy our best players and managers

Back to toe pick.

Say what you like about Salmond but he is an absolutely brilliant debater.
That is why Cameron won't go anywhere near him and has sacrificed Labour's Darling Boy on the high alter of politics.

I think the combined party letter in today's press must now have sealed it for the naesayers.

Like Rotherham (ROTHERHAM FFS)! looking to buy Stevie May from Saints. They know we can't easily turn down around a million (though it would be paid in installments so we'd have to keep our fingers crossed that Rotherham didn't go bust before final. He is worth a lot more than that - and of course if Rotherham get him well of course St Johnstone and Scottish football will be all the poorer. Denude Scottish football of it's decent talent and of course it isn't going to look that great in comparison. But were you to give a club like Saints a few seasons to strengthen their squad and I reckon we'd hold our own in lower half of English Championship

What's interesting but not surprising is the way a couple of Rotherham fans came onto the main Saints fans board asking how Stevie would fair with moving to as BIGGER club like Rotherham - who the hell do they think they are? - that's yer English footballing arrogance for you. They got a slamming. Yes Rotherham might have more money (though they'll also more likely to go bust)- might have more supporters - but it's going to be a wee while before Rotherham get into Europe or win the FA Cup - and lest they haven't notices - diddy wee Saint Johnstone have done both. So please just bugger off Rotherham and your condescending and arrogant supporters.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Like Rotherham (ROTHERHAM FFS)! looking to buy Stevie May from Saints. They know we can't easily turn down around a million (though it would be paid in installments so we'd have to keep our fingers crossed that Rotherham didn't go bust before final. He is worth a lot more than that - and of course if Rotherham get him well of course St Johnstone and Scottish football will be all the poorer. Denude Scottish football of it's decent talent and of course it isn't going to look that great in comparison. But were you to give a club like Saints a few seasons to strengthen their squad and I reckon we'd hold our own in lower half of English Championship

What's interesting but not surprising is the way a couple of Rotherham fans came onto the main Saints fans board asking how Stevie would fair with moving to as BIGGER club like Rotherham - who the hell do they think they are? - that's yer English footballing arrogance for you. They got a slamming. Yes Rotherham might have more money (though they'll also more likely to go bust)- might have more supporters - but it's going to be a wee while before Rotherham get into Europe or win the FA Cup - and lest they haven't notices - diddy wee Saint Johnstone have done both. So please just bugger off Rotherham and your condescending and arrogant supporters.

they are bigger though really - playing a higher level of football currently.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

they are bigger though really - playing a higher level of football currently.

What level of football is that? Just promoted from League 1 - a higher level of football? - yeh right!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What level of football is that? Just promoted from League 1 - a higher level of football? - yeh right!

Yep into the championship - yep higher level playing for Rotherham in the Championship that St Johnstone in the SPL

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yep into the championship - yep higher level playing for Rotherham in the Championship that St Johnstone in the SPL

Well - can't be proven either way. And we get into debate over what constitutes bigger. Except the evidence is that St Johnstone have played in Europe the last three seasons; we have won our national Cup, and are financially stable. I wait for Rotherham to go tits up - which will happen a lot sooner than their playing in Europe or winning the FA CUp. On many criteria Liverpool aren't one of the biggest clubs in teh England PL

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well - can't be proven either way. And we get into debate over what constitutes bigger. Except the evidence is that St Johnstone have played in Europe the last three seasons; we have won our national Cup, and are financially stable. I wait for Rotherham to go tits up - which will happen a lot sooner than their playing in Europe or winning the FA CUp.

So does TNS from Wales - does that make them bigger than Man Utd now - are St Johnstone bigger than Man Utd or Man City etc etc etc

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So does TNS from Wales - does that make them bigger than Man Utd now - are St Johnstone bigger than Man Utd or Man City etc etc etc

Precisely!

Three years ago my lot played in the Europa League whilst in the Championship and did reasonably well but it didn't mean we were a bigger club than those Premier League clubs who had not qualified for Europe that year and Wigan did the same last year.

Any person who thinks any Scottish club other than Celtic could cut it south of the wall is, I am afraid, seriously deluded.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If you want evidence that English fitba has gone to hell in a handcart.

£35m buys you Andy Carroll
£1m buys you Stevie May

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If you want evidence that English fitba has gone to hell in a handcart.

£35m buys you Andy Carroll
£1m buys you Stevie May

You certainly would not need £35m nowadays to buy Andy Carroll.

Has Scottish football learned its lesson, after all Rangers would appear to have been the biggest financial casualty in British football and seem to be still making the same mistakes.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You certainly would not need £35m nowadays to buy Andy Carroll.

Some fools paid it though.
Which was my point.

 

[mchacker]

Toni Kroos £24 million
Adam Lallana £25 million

English football is over inflated by money rather than quality, and it hasn't been effective improving anything, see champions league, piss poor world cup, etc.