Scottish v English football

[Deleted member 18588]

Really? He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.

Absolutely right.

The TV companies are not going to pay big money for the SPL whether Rangers are in it or not.

Remember this will be only the third season that they, Rangers, have been outside and at that time neither Sky nor any other broadcaster was willing to provide the sort of funds necessary for the clubs to recruit the quality players.

The product is now so poor that nobody outside Scotland, other than exiles, are interested.

Sad but true.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.

So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ?

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts.

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp.

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ?

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts.

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp.

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money

Belgium. Aside from Anderlecht, Brugge and Liege none of whom are as good as they were twenty or thirty years ago. There's little competition in that league and none of their European contenders tend to fair very well. In hindsight it's pretty similar to the Scottish situation at the moment

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ?

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts.

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp.

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money

So what do you propose, Rangers automatically reinstated into the SPL?

You don't seem to accept that when they were competing with Celtic there still was little or no interest in SPL games outside of Scotland but that was the case. BBC attempted to generate an audience and quickly dropped the experiment.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So what do you propose, Rangers automatically reinstated into the SPL?

You don't seem to accept that when they were competing with Celtic there still was little or no interest in SPL games outside of Scotland but that was the case. BBC attempted to generate an audience and quickly dropped the experiment.

Not at all - Rangers must work their own way back up and get themselves back competing against Celtic and whilst the money wasn't massive Sky still bought the rights to the Scottish Prem and it was actually sold abroad when there was Old Firms games and the league wasn't over before a ball was kicked.

The problem is ( not aimed here ) Celtic fans ( In general from what I have witnessed ) are that happy without Rangers there and being dropped down they don't seem to see it as a problem them winning the before a ball is kicked. Maybe going out of the CL so early might be a wake up to sort the league out

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.

SKY etc etc have just renewed the contracts for an increased fee

The EPL will always be a league that will sell around the world - where exactly are companies going to move too ?!

The clubs you mention are still around and playing in the Champ bar Burnley who got promoted

 

[HomerJSimpson]

SKY etc etc have just renewed the contracts for an increased fee

The EPL will always be a league that will sell around the world - where exactly are companies going to move too ?!

The clubs you mention are still around and playing in the Champ bar Burnley who got promoted

So why is Belgium suddenly the league of choice for you then? The SPL even with Sky showing the old firm matches is never going sell in abundance. Celtic going out of Europe isn't a given yet either in the CL (big ask) or Europa League. to be fair, I think (and I'm only an Englishman with an interest in football regardless of team, religion etc) Celtic and Rangers need each other. That said some of the other Socttish PL teams seem to be getting better and the gap between Celtic and the others not perhaps as big as it once was

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Belguim was mentioned because that league was the league that took Scotland's automatic CL place due to rising above them in the Co Efficents.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.

People (including myself) have been saying that ever since the advent of the EPL in '92 so I don't really think that is a realistic question any longer.

And perhaps you could enlighten me; what did happen to those EPL clubs you listed? All still going concerns as far as I can see.

In the case of one of them I can assure that they are successfully trading within budget and without Bank debt. May be short of capital due to the owner's difficulties in Hong Kong but administration does not appear to be an imminent danger.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Belguim was mentioned because that league was the league that took Scotland's automatic CL place due to rising above them in the Co Efficents.

Hardly setting the world alight though and can't really see what the fuss is about. Yes, a Scots team has to pre-qualify (and yes they are struggling to do so) but I really see no validity other than Belgium are benefitting from some UEFA maths equation

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

By their standards St Johnstone played very poorly on Thursday. We will score next week in Slovakia but will struggle to score two - never mind keeping a clean sheet.

Looks like we may be getting an offer of £1.2m for Stevie May - from Rotherham. Notwithstanding that we'd rather not lose Stevie we could not turn down that sort of money. But a little observation I might make is Rotherham and £1.2m. Just nuts and makes me wonder how real that sort of money is and at which point the likes of newly promoted Rotherham over-stretch themselves and pop goes the balloon.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

whilst the money wasn't massive Sky still bought the rights to the Scottish Prem and it was actually sold abroad when there was Old Firms games

Not massive!It was, in relative terms, peanuts.

The only hope for the Old Firm was to do a deal akin to that in Spain where the Big Two take 80%+ of the TV rights money but I somehow don't see the "wee clubs" signing up to that.

 

[Foxholer]

Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.

Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!

Rangers return, if/when it happens should at least provide a boost, but will be no panacea!

To some/a large extent, Scottish Football has got what it deserves. The apparent vindictive attitude of some of the Clubs to where New Rangers should start certainly didn't help, though there was certainly justification for the attitude at the time - much, if not all, of which was subsequently ruled in favour of Rangers! Whether Rangers versn 2 survives the year will also be interesting! I don't believe there's any realistic challenge to Celtic by them (and they are the only ones who are capable of challenging!) for 2-3 years, so it's only going to get worse! The fact that Belgium has taken over Scotland's automatic spot is merely another demonstration that the standard has dropped!

There is really no market for Scottish football outside Scotland (and ex-pats) and that's the whole crux of the problem! Whereas with EPL there is a worldwide demand! So while Rangers return is the only hope, it's very unlikely to be a saviour imo!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

109,000 watched a game of fitba in the USA last night.

[Just waiting for a certain somebody say that they were all English and Spanish fans on an awayday]

 

[Deleted member 15344]

109,000 watched a game of fitba in the USA last night.

[Just waiting for a certain somebody say that they were all English and Spanish fans on an awayday]

What exactly is the relevance of that post to the thread ?

Football in that states is on a massive boom because of how well they played in the WC and the MLS doing well

And it's great to see

 

[chris661]

Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!

Rangers return, if/when it happens should at least provide a boost, but will be no panacea!

To some/a large extent, Scottish Football has got what it deserves. The apparent vindictive attitude of some of the Clubs to where New Rangers should start certainly didn't help, though there was certainly justification for the attitude at the time - much, if not all, of which was subsequently ruled in favour of Rangers! Whether Rangers versn 2 survives the year will also be interesting! I don't believe there's any realistic challenge to Celtic by them (and they are the only ones who are capable of challenging!) for 2-3 years, so it's only going to get worse! The fact that Belgium has taken over Scotland's automatic spot is merely another demonstration that the standard has dropped!

There is really no market for Scottish football outside Scotland (and ex-pats) and that's the whole crux of the problem! Whereas with EPL there is a worldwide demand! So while Rangers return is the only hope, it's very unlikely to be a saviour imo!

Fans? I speak for no one except me thanks.

Rangers having to live within their means will never be competitive again. Well not like the previous club were anyway. They have lost close on 70 million class moving out of the bottom two leagues :rofl: they had a perfect opportunity but the superiority complex demanded SPL level players and wages. No chance they can live witilhin their means the fans will dwindle if they do creating a knock on effect. They won't be the challenge many are predicting for years if ever.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What exactly is the relevance of that post to the thread ?

Football in that states is on a massive boom because of how well they played in the WC and the MLS doing well

And it's great to see

Sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious.
That is where the best players in the world and all the TV money will be going within a decade.

 

[Foxholer]

Fans? I speak for no one except me thanks.

Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

It would seem somewhat selectively! (though I made no mention of fans in the post, you quote! )

Rangers having to live within their means will never be competitive again. Well not like the previous club were anyway. They have lost close on 70 million class moving out of the bottom two leagues :rofl: they had a perfect opportunity but the superiority complex demanded SPL level players and wages. No chance they can live witilhin their means the fans will dwindle if they do creating a knock on effect. They won't be the challenge many are predicting for years if ever.

I'm inclined to agree - if they simply continue as they are.

But their 'history' demonstrates that with appropriate investment and proper management, they can be resurrected and a decent profit can (eventually) be made. That's the sort of thing many overseas (and perhaps a few local) investors are actually looking for imo. in the same way that they have done so - with mixed results - in the English Championship. Newcastle is an(other) example of a relative success imo. and Ashley's name has, indeed, been linked with Rangers.

That will still only make 2 reasonable teams though, so the real problem won't go away - the product (SPL) is just not attractive/popular enough! Of course, it has always really been that way, but only recently has the gap been so glaringly, and demonstrably, obvious!

 

[chris661]

It would seem somewhat selectively! (though I made no mention of fans in the post, you quote! )

Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!

Not you then. OK.

I'm inclined to agree - if they simply continue as they are.

But their 'history' demonstrates that with appropriate investment and proper management, they can be resurrected and a decent profit can (eventually) be made. That's the sort of thing many overseas (and perhaps a few local) investors are actually looking for imo. in the same way that they have done so - with mixed results - in the English Championship. Newcastle is an(other) example of a relative success imo. and Ashley's name has, indeed, been linked with Rangers.

That will still only make 2 reasonable teams though, so the real problem won't go away - the product (SPL) is just not attractive/popular enough! Of course, it has always really been that way, but only recently has the gap been so glaringly, and demonstrably, obvious!

Even with champions league football the old rangers were not even close to making a profit. And without that level of player the fans will drift away to 80's levels again making the situation worse. The real problem started when Murray came in with someone else's money (namely the banks) it drove Scottish football to silly levels before that they weren't doing too badly in europe. Whether that would have continued is anyone's guess.