Scottish Golf proposing to allow non-club members handicap

[Deleted member 15344]

Does the CONGU constitution permit such non members to have a CONGU handicap?

A CONGU® Handicap is a handicap allotted and adjusted by the Home Club of a Member in accordance with the requirements of the UHS. A CONGU® Handicap must only be allotted to a Member of an Affiliated Club. Any other handicap is not a CONGU ® Handicap

The old EGU had an Associate Members scheme but if I remember rightly this was not a CONGU handicap and was not recognised by the other national unions.

You have missed the point - you have just posted the current rule

Scotland Golf are proposing that members can join a “virtual club” they create and be given a Congu HC but I think the Clubs and Congu will veto it

 

[Slab]

The clubs are going to be affected though because current members will take it up and so clubs will lose members , there will be people who won’t want to leave the game but will leave a club - that club loses money , give people a chance of cheaper access to golf and they take it - surely you aren’t that blind to not see it

Surely the only members that this would attract are those that don't currently get a good return on their membership fees
Ie they're forced to be members just for a handicap
Other than financially surely its not good for clubs to have members of that profile

 

[clubchamp98]

Does the CONGU constitution permit such non members to have a CONGU handicap?

A CONGU® Handicap is a handicap allotted and adjusted by the Home Club of a Member in accordance with the requirements of the UHS. A CONGU® Handicap must only be allotted to a Member of an Affiliated Club. Any other handicap is not a CONGU ® Handicap

The old EGU had an Associate Members scheme but if I remember rightly this was not a CONGU handicap and was not recognised by the other national unions.

They have changed the rules of golf many times.
Even changed the offside rule in footy.
So it shouldn’t take to much to change this if they want to.!

 

[rulefan]

You have missed the point - you have just posted the current rule

Scotland Golf are proposing that members can join a “virtual club” they create and be given a Congu HC but I think the Clubs and Congu will veto it

The SGU cannot unilaterally give a CONGU handicap to member of a non affiliated club. The SGU is not an affiliated club.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Surely the only members that this would attract are those that don't currently get a good return on their membership fees
Ie they're forced to be members just for a handicap
Other than financially surely its not good for clubs to have members of that profile

Ask every club and you will prob find half will say they don’t get a good return for their membership because they pay a full 7 day fee but only play at a weekend - no club will have every member believing they get their money worth but people still join and still pay their full membership subscription because they want to be a member and want to play golf

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The SGU cannot unilaterally give a CONGU handicap to member of a non affiliated club. The SGU is not an affiliated club.

🙄 again you are just quoting the current rules

Please read the article and then the thread and you see it’s something that Scotland Golf want to explore for the future - we all know what the current rules are

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You’ve lost me, were in the article or on here has anyone said anything about a non-member of a club with a handicap being able to rock up regularly and play in members comps, surely the clue is “members” comps, they won’t be members.

The article clearly says "
For a cost of just £4.99 per month, it is being proposed that affiliate Scottish Golf members would be able to obtain a CONGU handicap and play in competitions at clubs prepared to welcome them into the fold"

Therefore I am merely surmising that will be a more regular opportunity to play comps than just in the odd open

 

[Slab]

Ask every club and you will prob find half will say they don’t get a good return for their membership because they pay a full 7 day fee but only play at a weekend - no club will have every member believing they get their money worth but people still join and still pay their full membership subscription because they want to be a member and want to play golf

I genuinely don't know that I follow this
If members don't get vfm then there's something inherently wrong with the product, no?

Someone said golfers need clubs but it's also true clubs need golfers

Thers's no way I'd really use this word but it seems like clubs can extort membership fees simply on the back of this lure of a handicap rather than the benefits of membership

Just seems wrong for the consumer

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The article clearly says "
For a cost of just £4.99 per month, it is being proposed that affiliate Scottish Golf members would be able to obtain a CONGU handicap and play in competitions at clubs prepared to welcome them into the fold"

Therefore I am merely surmising that will be a more regular opportunity to play comps than just in the odd open

Only if members club allow it, as it says “prepared to welcome them”

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I genuinely don't know that I follow this
If members don't get vfm then there's something inherently wrong with the product, no?

Someone said golfers need clubs but it's also true clubs need golfers

Thers's no way I'd really use this word but it seems like clubs can extort membership fees simply on the back of this lure of a handicap rather than the benefits of membership

Just seems wrong for the consumer

Exactly, getting a proper handicap is almost secondary to some members, they join to be members and play golf, ie non-qualifying roll ups, we have members that only enter 3 comps a year to keep an active handicap, but play 3-4 times a week.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Only if members club allow it, as it says “prepared to welcome them”

I understand that, but do you not think there will be some that will and as a result isn't that a kick in the teeth to those forking out annual subs? I assume most clubs will be savvy enough to restrict it to a monthly medal/stableford and we'd not get to a position where they can play in more prestigious events. From my perspective I see it as a negative thing towards current club membership. Simple as that

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I understand that, but do you not think there will be some that will and as a result isn't that a kick in the teeth to those forking out annual subs? I assume most clubs will be savvy enough to restrict it to a monthly medal/stableford and we'd not get to a position where they can play in more prestigious events. From my perspective I see it as a negative thing towards current club membership. Simple as that

That’s down to those Clubs then isn’t it? No different to dress codes etc i.e. if the members don’t like it they could vote with their feet, but why would they allow it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I genuinely don't know that I follow this
If members don't get vfm then there's something inherently wrong with the product, no?

Someone said golfers need clubs but it's also true clubs need golfers

Thers's no way I'd really use this word but it seems like clubs can extort membership fees simply on the back of this lure of a handicap rather than the benefits of membership

Just seems wrong for the consumer

I guess you haven’t come across the 5 day and 7 day membership argument then

5 day membership normally cost less than 7 - members can play Monday to Friday

7 Day members are normally the guys who can mainly only play either Saturday or Sunday and some on both days - mainly guys still working

7 day is also more expensive

So you mainly get the guys who only play on weekends complaining that they pay more but play less - it’s a well trodden argument with clubs but weekend is prime time golf so the clubs change charge more.

Clubs aren’t “extorting” members so they keep a handicap - they are charging what they need to keep the club going and moving forward.

If you offer someone the chance of being able to get a Congu HC for £50 a year and be able to enter comps at other courses then there are going to be people who will quit their membership and just do that - clubs will lose that funding

But it’s no different in many sports - clubs will charge what they need and if they can increase fees they will - there are many clubs with waiting lists , big joining fees etc

But ultimately I don’t see this idea ever getting anywhere near getting off the ground - clubs and Congu will ensure that

 

[Hobbit]

I don't understand all the negativity before the detail is out there to prove the case one way or another. It might turn out to be a lousy idea, or it might turn out to be a flash of brilliance.

We don't know what courses will stage a list of comps open to non-members. We don't know the mechanics of how the 3 cards submitted will be reviewed.

There just seems to be some people behaving like Luddites. Lets see the details before we shout man will never walk on the moon.

 

[User20204]

The SGU cannot unilaterally give a CONGU handicap to member of a non affiliated club. The SGU is not an affiliated club.

There is no such body as the SGU and hasn't been for around 4 years.

 

[rosecott]

There is no such body as the SGU and hasn't been for around 4 years.

Semantics, we all know what he means. EGU has been gone longer than that, but people still mention it as if it never changed.

 

[clubchamp98]

Have a look at post 1867 in the I played today thread.
That’s what you will get if this happens.

 

[Slab]

I guess you haven’t come across the 5 day and 7 day membership argument then

5 day membership normally cost less than 7 - members can play Monday to Friday

7 Day members are normally the guys who can mainly only play either Saturday or Sunday and some on both days - mainly guys still working

7 day is also more expensive

So you mainly get the guys who only play on weekends complaining that they pay more but play less - it’s a well trodden argument with clubs but weekend is prime time golf so the clubs change charge more.

Clubs aren’t “extorting” members so they keep a handicap - they are charging what they need to keep the club going and moving forward.

If you offer someone the chance of being able to get a Congu HC for £50 a year and be able to enter comps at other courses then there are going to be people who will quit their membership and just do that - clubs will lose that funding

But it’s no different in many sports - clubs will charge what they need and if they can increase fees they will - there are many clubs with waiting lists , big joining fees etc

But ultimately I don’t see this idea ever getting anywhere near getting off the ground - clubs and Congu will ensure that

Maybe that's the crux, if
Clubs charge what they need rather than what it's worth
If each club has 10 or whatever members who only pay to keep handicap then those guys really shouldn't have to be members just to get something so rudimentary to the game of golf
This idea seems to be aimed at golfers as a whole rather than members. So maybe the club membership goes down by 10 but the scheme attracts 100 current nomads to the course because they do need to play somewhere (who knows what the numbers are)
So club number goes down but course number good up
Maybe a scheme like this is actually the death throws for societies as we currently know them or just a way to make their handicaps more accurate

One thing is certain, those 10 members who pay just for a piece of paper are currently being stiffed

 

[Jacko_G]

Competitive golf yeah right, the way I see it is that nomads will use it to get artificial handicaps then enter club opens which may cause a shortage of places that normal club golfers could lose out on due to the non club golfer with a new Scottish Golf lucky bag handicap use to fill their pockets with cheap golf and clean up the prize money.

Well done Scottish Golf, great idea.

A nomad turns up at a competition and wins it they will get "slashed" by the SGU. Their handicap will be reduced by the number of strokes that they are under their handicap. It's going to be far more difficult to get that handicap back up.

A club member can play 3 holes in a medal twice a week and throw in a supplementary card or two and gain 0.6 in a couple of weeks. Is a nomad golfer going to pay for 6 rounds in that same period to put their handicap back up? I very much doubt it given the financial burden alone. I'm confident you will still get far more bandits within the club setting than as a nomad.

I really can't see a mass exodus of club golfers wanting to take this up and genuinely see it as a way of getting more golfers back into clubs in the long run.

I could of course be wrong but I'm prepared to give it a chance anyway.

 

[Grant85]

there seems to be this view that anyone who wins a competition is a bandit with a dodgy handicap.

You know yourself that you can easily be 15+ shots different from one day to the next.

I think the number of regular players who manipulate their handicap is a tiny fraction of those playing, and as Jacko says, it would be harder to do this without a club membership and the ability to submit regular cards.