Roll Ups : Entitled or Appreciative ?

[PaulMdj]

It's relevant, but....why would people assume the most negative conclusion. It might be that the clubhouse isn't a great place for a drink (I don't know). It might be that those younger folks might want to go to the same place they have been hanging out at for years (I don't know).....could be other reasons. But, for some reason several people assume it's a crap clubhouse in some way.

No one said it was crap, it might just be like Pubs/Bars, ie, some appeal to one type of clientel, others to other types, it could be the local Pub shows live Football in the afternoon and the Clubhouse doesn’t.
They might be meeting wives/girlfriends or live near the Pub and can park their car and not worry about drink drive limits or the Pub does better food etc etc

The Club needs to look at all aspects, speak to as many members as they can and then try and cater to the majority.

 

[Mandofred]

No one said it was crap, it might just be like Pubs/Bars, ie, some appeal to one type of clientel, others to other types, it could be the local Pub shows live Football in the afternoon and the Clubhouse doesn’t.
They might be meeting wives/girlfriends or live near the Pub and can park their car and not worry about drink drive limits or the Pub does better food etc etc

The Club needs to look at all aspects, speak to as many members as they can and then try and cater to the majority.

This is your quote.....you didn't use the word crap though....

"If people are leaving the course to go to a nearby pub, your Clubhouse has a problem, maybe you need to look inwards first."

I agree with all that you wrote after that part, which is why I was wondering why you automatically went to the worst possible response.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is your quote.....you didn't use the word crap though....

"If people are leaving the course to go to a nearby pub, your Clubhouse has a problem, maybe you need to look inwards first."

I agree with all that you wrote after that part, which is why I was wondering why you automatically went to the worst possible response.

To be fair I thought he made a good point if perhaps bluntly. If a club is losing members to other establishments then it does need to look at why that is happening. Surely a clubhouse needs to be providing to its widest possible denominator and so it people are leaving for a specifc reason (prices, lack of beers on tap, poor food, uncomfy surroundings) then it has the opportunity to address these

 

[PaulMdj]

This is your quote.....you didn't use the word crap though....

"If people are leaving the course to go to a nearby pub, your Clubhouse has a problem, maybe you need to look inwards first."

I agree with all that you wrote after that part, which is why I was wondering why you automatically went to the worst possible response.

I know, he then clarified the Clubhouse is currently a tent and is currently being refurbished.

My response was based on his lack of information given.

So they have probably looked at how the Clubhouse was and have addressed it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Of course it’s relevant

Very relevant when highlighting members going to a different establishment for food and drinks

You think so…I might disagree…it’s often not as much about what a clubhouse offers but where members decide to decamp for their post round chats and beers. We all know that this is the case, it’s been discussed repeatedly on this forum.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's relevant, but....why would people assume the most negative conclusion. It might be that the clubhouse isn't a great place for a drink (I don't know). It might be that those younger folks might want to go to the same place they have been hanging out at for years (I don't know).....could be other reasons. But, for some reason several people assume it's a crap clubhouse in some way.

…and it’s not…it’s just that the club wishes to improve the flexibility and comfort of the club’s eating, drinking and functions facilities and offering to members and visitors alike.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You think so…I might disagree…it’s often not as much about what a clubhouse offers but where members decide to decamp for their post round chats and beers. We all know that this is the case, it’s been discussed repeatedly on this forum.

If people aren’t going into the clubhouse after the round it will be for a number of reasons

They don’t have the time to do so - especially with younger people with young families where time is always stretched

The quality of the food and beer isn’t worth it and they feel it’s better quality for their money elsewhere

Or the clubhouse is just not welcoming to them


But a clubhouse going through a refurb will be a very relevant reason why people dont stay

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Book up 12, 13, 14, 15, etc slots then. If you have over 40 golfers wanting to play in your roll ups, you are in a fantastic position as a club.

We have had up to 40playing in our Saturday rollup, and our Thursday rollup would regularly have 60-70 playing. Rollups have historically been, and continue to be, a core constituent part of our club culture.

The rollup question is about how some of our rollups are being pushed around by the club at the behest of some (we know not who or how many) members who simply don’t want to play in the roll up. Show us the evidence, we ask…and none is forthcoming.

I doubt any would state the clubhouse facilities as a reason for not playing in the Saturday rollup. And that’s fine. Newer members with an issue would know before they joined that the rollups existed and were very popular and active…so perhaps don’t start moaning about it now…bit like buying a house beside a church and moaning about the church bells being rung on a Sunday.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If people aren’t going into the clubhouse after the round it will be for a number of reasons

They don’t have the time to do so - especially with younger people with young families where time is always stretched

The quality of the food and beer isn’t worth it and they feel it’s better quality for their money elsewhere

Or the clubhouse is just not welcoming to them


But a clubhouse going through a refurb will be a very relevant reason why people dont stay

All this is true but I suggest it has little to do with whether someone wants to play in a rollup or not.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

All this is true but I suggest it has little to do with whether someone wants to play in a rollup or not.

You were the one that mentioned about going into the club house afterwards and fourballs outside the roll up going elsewhere

And point one about time constraints is very relevant to why people may not want to play in a roll up

 

[Swango1980]

We have had up to 40playing in our Saturday rollup, and our Thursday rollup would regularly have 60-70 playing. Rollups have historically been, and continue to be, a core constituent part of our club culture.

The rollup question is about how some of our rollups are being pushed around by the club at the behest of some (we know not who or how many) members who simply don’t want to play in the roll up. Show us the evidence, we ask…and none is forthcoming.

I doubt any would state the clubhouse facilities as a reason for not playing in the Saturday rollup. And that’s fine. Newer members with an issue would know before they joined that the rollups existed and were very popular and active…so perhaps don’t start moaning about it now…bit like buying a house beside a church and moaning about the church bells being rung on a Sunday.

I wonder of those who complain, when they play?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the roll ups were cancelled or put to another time? I'd look to see:

1. What new faces book their name into slots that you never saw playing before (presumably these are the ones that hate the roll ups)
2. How many of the people that played in the roll ups no longer play, or play as frequently
3. Is there a difference in the number of new members you see playing, interacting with other members and getting settled in the club (as a proportion of total new members that join)
4. Is there a drop off, or increase in new members joining and could there be any connection (I know one chap, who also is a member of this forum) that had to join a new club a couple of years ago, and he immediately ruled out any clubs that didn't have things like roll ups at weekends, as he was joining on his own and wanted a club where it was easy to meet lots of other members

 

[Slab]

Never underestimate the appeal of a simple ‘In’ reply to a whatsapp group, versus having to organise your own tee time and checking with your PPs/re-filling places for absence etc

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I wonder of those who complain, when they play?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the roll ups were cancelled or put to another time? I'd look to see:

1. What new faces book their name into slots that you never saw playing before (presumably these are the ones that hate the roll ups)
2. How many of the people that played in the roll ups no longer play, or play as frequently
3. Is there a difference in the number of new members you see playing, interacting with other members and getting settled in the club (as a proportion of total new members that join)
4. Is there a drop off, or increase in new members joining and could there be any connection (I know one chap, who also is a member of this forum) that had to join a new club a couple of years ago, and he immediately ruled out any clubs that didn't have things like roll ups at weekends, as he was joining on his own and wanted a club where it was easy to meet lots of other members

Before tee bookings were introduced the roll ups all jumped down to the tee after doing a draw - people would potentially turn up and see 5/6 groups waiting so would then go home instead of waiting 1 hour or so


Now since it’s open tee bookings

Those “roll ups” play when the groups book themselves in roughly at their previous times

But what we see is those early mornings that used to be dominated by the big senior roll up you can now see three different swindles playing including on one day a ladies swindle

In the summer it’s also lots of young juniors playing

In regards the last part

Most of the clubs around here have new joiners being given a list of groups that they could join

There is also a new members swindle organised where they can join in with

Our swindle has at least 5 people that have joined the club over the last 24 months and managed to get to know people

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When we had no tee times if there were big roll up groups going out, they would split in half and some off the 1st and the others off 10, or alternatively a single game would go off 10 first. We had a rule that you simply waited if there was already a group teeing off but then would slip in front of those coming off nine and when they got back to the first would alternate with the groups teeing off. Worked perfectly. Covid and tee booking stopped all that and now it is first tee or bust but the roll up groups have become well attuned to booking set times (usually having a designated booker, people they are booking for and a target time so in effect newer or less aware groups are still finding themselves booking after the roll ups. In the old days a perfect opportunity to get involved

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I wonder of those who complain, when they play?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the roll ups were cancelled or put to another time? I'd look to see:

1. What new faces book their name into slots that you never saw playing before (presumably these are the ones that hate the roll ups)
2. How many of the people that played in the roll ups no longer play, or play as frequently
3. Is there a difference in the number of new members you see playing, interacting with other members and getting settled in the club (as a proportion of total new members that join)
4. Is there a drop off, or increase in new members joining and could there be any connection (I know one chap, who also is a member of this forum) that had to join a new club a couple of years ago, and he immediately ruled out any clubs that didn't have things like roll ups at weekends, as he was joining on his own and wanted a club where it was easy to meet lots of other members

1. The rollup has already had its number of allocated tee times reduced and pushed back two tee times. Quite often we see the times the rollup has vacated empty. Even before the there were often empty tee times before and after our allocation. The organisers have been tracking the stats and have provided the club with that evidence that suggests the pressure is not what is suggested.

2. As the rollup has already been pushed back, some find later tee times now getting a little bit too late in the day for them - and that will no doubt be exacerbated when pushed back again. If I know I need to do something in the afternoon I can ask for an early place in the draw…but we mustn’t - and don’t - overuse that.

3 and 4. Our membership turnover is low - maybe 30 new members a year - some coming from our academies so already part of the club. The club traditionally points all new members to this rollup as a means of introducing new members to others to help them settle into the club. That has not changed, and even with reduced tee times we wouldn’t want it to stop - even if it meant some regulars would have to find a time around any allocation we are given.

I note that we are only getting a tee time allocation for summer months. In the ‘off-season’ we will have to organise ourselves to get online and book times - fastest fingers first - not something we’ve had to worry about in the past - may well be the case that we go for our previous earlier tee times…but if that is what the club decrees I feel,we have to go with it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When we had no tee times if there were big roll up groups going out, they would split in half and some off the 1st and the others off 10, or alternatively a single game would go off 10 first. We had a rule that you simply waited if there was already a group teeing off but then would slip in front of those coming off nine and when they got back to the first would alternate with the groups teeing off. Worked perfectly. Covid and tee booking stopped all that and now it is first tee or bust but the roll up groups have become well attuned to booking set times (usually having a designated booker, people they are booking for and a target time so in effect newer or less aware groups are still finding themselves booking after the roll ups. In the old days a perfect opportunity to get involved

Likewise pre-covid and so pre-booking system. Also pre-booking if there were say 8 or more groups in the rollup two or three groups might choose to start on the 10th…but we are no longer able to do that…at least it is frowned upon as that too was causing upset. Plus if any group came along not wanting to play in the rollup we’d simply wave them on in the middle of us.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So…winter Saturday rollup starting this coming Saturday. And new requirement from the club is that it loses its eight allocated tee times from 11am, and it has to book tee times a week in advance along with all other members.

OK that’s what we have done. This week 32 members wishing to play and we booked eight tee times from 10:30am. Well that’s the rollup’s historic 1st tee time before club shoved it out to 11am. Indeed there was a strong push from some in the rollup that we book tee times from 9am or 9:30am…but the majority were against playing games - we stayed on the high ground.

So those who complained to the club about the rollup and it being difficult to get an am time in the winter - well be careful what you wish for.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So…winter Saturday rollup starting this coming Saturday. And new requirement from the club is that it loses its eight allocated tee times from 11am, and it has to book tee times a week in advance along with all other members.

OK that’s what we have done. This week 32 members wishing to play and we booked eight tee times from 10:30am. Well that’s the rollup’s historic 1st tee time before club shoved it out to 11am. Indeed there was a strong push from some in the rollup that we book tee times from 9am or 9:30am…but the majority were against playing games - we stayed on the high ground.

So those who complained to the club about the rollup and it being difficult to get an am time in the winter - well be careful what you wish for.

You don't read that back and cringe a little? The last part in particular? It certainly goes to the heart of the question being posed in the title.

 

[Mandofred]

You don't read that back and cringe a little? The last part in particular? It certainly goes to the heart of the question being posed in the title.

I guess I might be confused....not sure why the cringe thing. The rollup allowed the group to be pushed back to 11am to allow for the "open booking" folks. Then the club takes away the times they had given them......so maybe those rollup folks just jump into the regular open times at 9am with all the others.....and now there are less bookings available for the people who weren't in the rollup. If I have that view correct......by killing off the rollup tee times they may have just caused a bigger crush for the tee times earlier in the day. Two of my past clubs do that right now.....a fight between rollup people and non-rollup people as fastest finger wins the day.....seems a bit harsh to me.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I guess I might be confused....not sure why the cringe thing. The rollup allowed the group to be pushed back to 11am to allow for the "open booking" folks. Then the club takes away the times they had given them......so maybe those rollup folks just jump into the regular open times at 9am with all the others.....and now there are less bookings available for the people who weren't in the rollup. If I have that view correct......by killing off the rollup tee times they may have just caused a bigger crush for the tee times earlier in the day. Two of my past clubs do that right now.....a fight between rollup people and non-rollup people as fastest finger wins the day.....seems a bit harsh to me.

'We stayed on the high ground', 'well, be careful what you wish for'. That sounds highly entitled and more. It's a club that all members are a part of, not exclusive to one group.

If the club want to allot a time to a roll up, that's fine. If the club want to remove that privilege, and it is a privilege, then that also has to be respected. Believing that you have a right to a time, in an open booking system, not for me.