Roll Ups : Entitled or Appreciative ?

[D-S]

'We stayed on the high ground', 'well, be careful what you wish for'. That sounds highly entitled and more. It's a club that all members are a part of, not exclusive to one group.

A tad passive aggressive.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So…winter Saturday rollup starting this coming Saturday. And new requirement from the club is that it loses its eight allocated tee times from 11am, and it has to book tee times a week in advance along with all other members.

OK that’s what we have done. This week 32 members wishing to play and we booked eight tee times from 10:30am. Well that’s the rollup’s historic 1st tee time before club shoved it out to 11am. Indeed there was a strong push from some in the rollup that we book tee times from 9am or 9:30am…but the majority were against playing games - we stayed on the high ground.

So those who complained to the club about the rollup and it being difficult to get an am time in the winter - well be careful what you wish for.

What does the last line mean ?


“Careful what you wish for”

Can you not see how entitled that is


How about what they wish for is for all members to be treated the same

 

[PaulMdj]

A tad passive aggressive.

I’m just off to get my thesaurus to find polite words for pompous, arrogant and a few others.

 

[Swango1980]

What does the last line mean ?


“Careful what you wish for”

Can you not see how entitled that is


How about what they wish for is for all members to be treated the same

If it was an open roll up, and allowed any member to just turn up and play, would all members not be still treated the same?

Surely it is nothing to do with entitlement. It simply offers another method for members to turn up and play golf, who maybe couldn't book weeks in advance or find anyone to play with? Whereas, if all tee times are Open, then that surely favours those that can commit and book early, with mates to book in with? Not an issue if the course isn't overly busy and members can still book later on. But, certainly favours those that can commit early on courses where you need to book within a minute of times going love, or miss out. For me, it almost feels like the "entitled ones" are those that only accept playing golf with their mates, want the freedom of choosing from all the tee slots themselves and have no care for members who are quite happy to play with anyone?

I also think it is a point worth making that, if it was members booking between 9-10.30 complaining about the roll up, then a possible unwanted consequence for them would be that these roll up members would start booking the earlier slots, making it harder for these non-roll up golfers to play at their preferred times (unless they actually wanted later times). Because, banning the roll up isn't going to mean the golfers playing in the roll up will just vanish into thin air. They'll still want to play, and there will still be the same number of tee slots through the morning regardless. Although, maybe a few less golfers will actually play, simply because new members or solo golfers will no longer be able to book a slot or reluctant to book in on their own (or maybe a few will book in on their own, meaning one slot is now occupied by a single golfer, meaning even less might be able to play golf)

The only way I can see a roll up as "entitlement" is if only certain members are allowed to play within the roll up. Whereas, if run well, I think a roll up is a cracking idea for a club, as it caters for many more members within the club, not all being in the same position to book early / find people to play with.

 

[Crazyface]

I'm in one, but I don't turn up very often. We used to have four slots, but 10 of our lot left so now we just have two slots. They are at 8.30, which means I have to get up at 7.30, at least, to make it there as they sort out groups. What a faf. Also, it's just for a knock with the lads, I can't be bothered. My day starts at 9am after breakfast. What's the rush? We are also sorting out payments. £1 £1 £1 Front,back, overall + 50p for twos. Nutz to that as well. I've said for winter, chuck a quid in, winner takes all and is docked one shot no backsies. You would believe the complicated carp that is our winter knock, as we have a captains ball running alongside, so two cards and two different handicaps are being used. No, I don't understand it either.

 

[Swango1980]

At our club, we don't have roll ups at the weekend (a group have a slot booked from 11-12 in the summer, but you have to be part of that group, so they do get an entitlement to that slot).

So, what tends to happen is that 3 or 5 people individually book slots as soon as they open as single players, and then reserve the other 3 slots or just put names of golfers they know might play with them. They then just turn up on the day as a roll up between themselves. They may have booked up to 5 slots, but sometimes only 6-8 of them actually turn up.

Not yet created a big issue at our club yet, as we can generally still get tee times. But, I suppose if it became a bigger issue, the club would need to find a way of stopping players from doing this. Perhaps, if the club set up their own roll up, that they have control over, it would then at least give a good number of those golfers who normally only make a decision to play the day before an opportunity to turn up and play.

 

[Mandofred]

How about what they wish for is for all members to be treated the same

But all members are not treated the same. Ladies mornings? Booked comps that stop people from playing with their mates. What you mean is...."All people who only want to play with their mates are treated the same"....except for all the usual exceptions for blocking times like for the Ladies, comps, Opens etc etc.

 

[RichA]

At our club, we don't have roll ups at the weekend (a group have a slot booked from 11-12 in the summer, but you have to be part of that group, so they do get an entitlement to that slot).

So, what tends to happen is that 3 or 5 people individually book slots as soon as they open as single players, and then reserve the other 3 slots or just put names of golfers they know might play with them. They then just turn up on the day as a roll up between themselves. They may have booked up to 5 slots, but sometimes only 6-8 of them actually turn up.

Not yet created a big issue at our club yet, as we can generally still get tee times. But, I suppose if it became a bigger issue, the club would need to find a way of stopping players from doing this. Perhaps, if the club set up their own roll up, that they have control over, it would then at least give a good number of those golfers who normally only make a decision to play the day before an opportunity to turn up and play.

Yeah. It does rely on a bit of civic responsibility.
There are about 10 of us in our little WhatsApp group.
Tee times are released 17 days in advance, so 8pm every Wednesday and Thursday a couple of us will try to book a couple of weekend morning tee times using the fastest finger method then announce the bookings on WhatsApp. Anyone wanting to play is added. If there are 4 or less we use one tee time and cancel the second, giving it up for any other members.
I don't consider us to be a roll up as we always know 17 days in advance exactly when and with whom we're playing. There's no money changing hands; just fun-time golf with friends, a quick coffee then back to standard weekend domestic misery.

 

[Mandofred]

'We stayed on the high ground', 'well, be careful what you wish for'. That sounds highly entitled and more. It's a club that all members are a part of, not exclusive to one group.

If the club want to allot a time to a roll up, that's fine. If the club want to remove that privilege, and it is a privilege, then that also has to be respected. Believing that you have a right to a time, in an open booking system, not for me.

Not how I see it....but I'm always out of line with "normal" people. I may possibly have this wrong....wouldn't be the first or last time.....check my bullets below....where have I gone wrong?
1. The was a rollup at a certain time, to make the people who were unhappy with the rollup at a time that was in the considered Prime Time....they moved the rollup to a later slot. Open booking people are happier since things are going their way and they get more access to tee times to play their way.
2. Rollup people make the adjustment to a later time....maybe not happy, but are willing to do so.
3. Club now takes that later rollup slot away from the rollup group. Club has the right to do so.
4. Now those rollup players who were willing to play at 11 kind of say to themselves....."What the heck, might as well just do the fastest finger route and try to self book ourselves into the prime times tee time slots and try to do a bit of a rollup in and around the other open booking people. We will book early times and "hope" the other rollup folks will fill in the times...or not....
5. Club kills off the rollup later in the day....now more congestion earlier in the day where the open booking people didn't have to contend with the rollup people trying to get times.
6. Open booking folks shoot themselves in the foot by trying to get things ONLY their way.....and now have less tee spaces in the prime time slots.

It sounds like one group of people were willing to make compromises.....one group of people were not.

 

[RichA]

Not how I see it....but I'm always out of line with "normal" people. I may possibly have this wrong....wouldn't be the first or last time.....check my bullets below....where have I gone wrong?
1. The was a rollup at a certain time, to make the people who were unhappy with the rollup at a time that was in the considered Prime Time....they moved the rollup to a later slot. Open booking people are happier since things are going their way and they get more access to tee times to play their way.
2. Rollup people make the adjustment to a later time....maybe not happy, but are willing to do so.
3. Club now takes that later rollup slot away from the rollup group. Club has the right to do so.
4. Now those rollup players who were willing to play at 11 kind of say to themselves....."What the heck, might as well just do the fastest finger route and try to self book ourselves into the prime times tee time slots and try to do a bit of a rollup in and around the other open booking people. We will book early times and "hope" the other rollup folks will fill in the times...or not....
5. Club kills off the rollup later in the day....now more congestion earlier in the day where the open booking people didn't have to contend with the rollup people trying to get times.
6. Open booking folks shoot themselves in the foot by trying to get things ONLY their way.....and now have less tee spaces in the prime time slots.

It sounds like one group of people were willing to make compromises.....one group of people were not.

I think maybe the issue is any completely informal competition, as a roll up seems to be, having the right to block out an hour of weekend tee times, regardless of the time.

I like an 8am tee time with my pals.
Other folks might prefer 10am.

Personally, as a club member I just expect the same access to any particular tee time as any other members.
I don't expect to get 8am. When I get it I'm always relieved. At the moment, if I missed it then by the time the booking app had refreshed the tee times would mostly be booked and I'd be struggling to get a time that would leave enough daylight for 18 holes.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not how I see it....but I'm always out of line with "normal" people. I may possibly have this wrong....wouldn't be the first or last time.....check my bullets below....where have I gone wrong?
1. The was a rollup at a certain time, to make the people who were unhappy with the rollup at a time that was in the considered Prime Time....they moved the rollup to a later slot. Open booking people are happier since things are going their way and they get more access to tee times to play their way.
2. Rollup people make the adjustment to a later time....maybe not happy, but are willing to do so.
3. Club now takes that later rollup slot away from the rollup group. Club has the right to do so.
4. Now those rollup players who were willing to play at 11 kind of say to themselves....."What the heck, might as well just do the fastest finger route and try to self book ourselves into the prime times tee time slots and try to do a bit of a rollup in and around the other open booking people. We will book early times and "hope" the other rollup folks will fill in the times...or not....
5. Club kills off the rollup later in the day....now more congestion earlier in the day where the open booking people didn't have to contend with the rollup people trying to get times.
6. Open booking folks shoot themselves in the foot by trying to get things ONLY their way.....and now have less tee spaces in the prime time slots.

It sounds like one group of people were willing to make compromises.....one group of people were not.

Or in those prime tee times they are open to everyone on a first come first serve basis

So if someone wants to play with 3 mates during those prime spots they can

If the roll up members want to book it first they can

But at least everyone has the option to look to book during those spots and play with who they want

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@Mandofred the majority of your points are up to the club. Their choice whether a roll up gets a slot or not. If it is that important to the members, it should, but ultimately it is up to the club to decide.

What happens afterwards is a consequence that the club will have to accept. Maybe there will be a consequence, maybe all will run smoothly still. We can't second guess from here.

 

[Mandofred]

I think maybe the issue is any completely informal competition, as a roll up seems to be, having the right to block out an hour of weekend tee times, regardless of the time.

I like an 8am tee time with my pals.
Other folks might prefer 10am.

Personally, as a club member I just expect the same access to any particular tee time as any other members.
I don't expect to get 8am. When I get it I'm always relieved. At the moment, if I missed it then by the time the booking app had refreshed the tee times would mostly be booked and I'd be struggling to get a time that would leave enough daylight for 18 holes.

My current club has a pre-booked Thursday morning slot at 9am for the Seniors (although nobody would stop other people from joining us). We put our names down in the online booking system (Club V1) and prepay £3 for this rollup. Every week. Is this formal....or informal competition?

@Mandofred the majority of your points are up to the club. Their choice whether a roll up gets a slot or not. If it is that important to the members, it should, but ultimately it is up to the club to decide.

What happens afterwards is a consequence that the club will have to accept. Maybe there will be a consequence, maybe all will run smoothly still. We can't second guess from here.

Yet that is what everybody (me and you included) does.

 

[D-S]

Isn’t it simply about equal access? The best way of achieving that is to offer all slots to everyone, first come first served. Blocking off times for any specific group will deny possible access to that time for others irrespective if it is at 9 or 11.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If it was an open roll up, and allowed any member to just turn up and play, would all members not be still treated the same?

Surely it is nothing to do with entitlement. It simply offers another method for members to turn up and play golf, who maybe couldn't book weeks in advance or find anyone to play with? Whereas, if all tee times are Open, then that surely favours those that can commit and book early, with mates to book in with? Not an issue if the course isn't overly busy and members can still book later on. But, certainly favours those that can commit early on courses where you need to book within a minute of times going love, or miss out. For me, it almost feels like the "entitled ones" are those that only accept playing golf with their mates, want the freedom of choosing from all the tee slots themselves and have no care for members who are quite happy to play with anyone?

I also think it is a point worth making that, if it was members booking between 9-10.30 complaining about the roll up, then a possible unwanted consequence for them would be that these roll up members would start booking the earlier slots, making it harder for these non-roll up golfers to play at their preferred times (unless they actually wanted later times). Because, banning the roll up isn't going to mean the golfers playing in the roll up will just vanish into thin air. They'll still want to play, and there will still be the same number of tee slots through the morning regardless. Although, maybe a few less golfers will actually play, simply because new members or solo golfers will no longer be able to book a slot or reluctant to book in on their own (or maybe a few will book in on their own, meaning one slot is now occupied by a single golfer, meaning even less might be able to play golf)

The only way I can see a roll up as "entitlement" is if only certain members are allowed to play within the roll up. Whereas, if run well, I think a roll up is a cracking idea for a club, as it caters for many more members within the club, not all being in the same position to book early / find people to play with.

Absolutely spot on. This rollup was completely open to all - there are no ‘members’ of the rollup and no one had a ‘right’ to play in one of the allocated tee times - it was first come first served. When the tee allocation was full you were a reserve. On the morning we all gathered and a random draw for groups was made.

Some club members not wanting to play in the rollup, but with their mates at a time of their choosing, complained…had done for some time. Some months ago the rollup was pushed back to later in the morning to 11am first tee, and its tee allocation reduced. Forced upon us. We didn’t like having to play from 11am but the club decided and so it was. Didn’t stop the complainers. More complaining from members complaining that the rollup shouldn’t have allocated tee times on a Saturday. So the rollup was given no choice. Over the winter months we are competing for tee times with all other members.

And so for this Saturday - and for the next 5months, those wishing to play in the rollup notified the organisers ten days in advance and we are organised to book tee times for however many had signed up for it when booking opens.

To this Saturday, the first of the winter rollups. We had decided to take our chances and look to book tee times from our traditional start time of 10:30am. And that is what we’ve done. - eight consecutive tee times from 10:34am. Those moaning at us, have effectively got us organised and competing with them for tee times between 10:30am and 11am. Some of us…through devilment as much as anything else, pushed for booking from 9am or 9:30am..but we are a decent bunch of club members…and so that idea was quashed…for the time being.

And for those who think rollups such as our Saturday one are inevitably exclusive or elitist. A total of 67 members old and new played in our Saturday rollup this summer.

 

[Swango1980]

Isn’t it simply about equal access? The best way of achieving that is to offer all slots to everyone, first come first served. Blocking off times for any specific group will deny possible access to that time for others irrespective if it is at 9 or 11.

Is that is what is happening here though? I keep hearing suggestions that pre booking the tee slot for a group of people is a privilege, which I'd agree. But, if the roll up is actually available for EVERY club member to join in, then the specific group is technically the entire membership of the club?

 

[Mandofred]

Isn’t it simply about equal access? The best way of achieving that is to offer all slots to everyone, first come first served. Blocking off times for any specific group will deny possible access to that time for others irrespective if it is at 9 or 11.

Again....rollups (at least the ones I've ever been part of) do not stop anybody from playing golf. Everybody still has access to those times. The people who are unhappy are the ones who ONLY want to play their way with just their mates. I've nothing against people wanting to play with just their friends.....I do the same thing at times.

Why are so many people against compromise? Why can't both ways of playing be accommodated?

 

[Swango1980]

Again....rollups (at least the ones I've ever been part of) do not stop anybody from playing golf. Everybody still has access to those times. The people who are unhappy are the ones who ONLY want to play their way with just their mates. I've nothing against people wanting to play with just their friends.....I do the same thing at times.

Why are so many people against compromise? Why can't both ways of playing be accommodated?

I guess people who already have their regular group to play with feel they should be entitled to ALL the prime slots?

 

[PaulMdj]

Absolutely spot on. This rollup was completely open to all - there are no ‘members’ of the rollup and no one had a ‘right’ to play in one of the allocated tee times - it was first come first served. When the tee allocation was full you were a reserve. On the morning we all gathered and a random draw for groups was made.

Some club members not wanting to play in the rollup, but with their mates at a time of their choosing, complained…had done for some time. Some months ago the rollup was pushed back to later in the morning to 11am first tee, and its tee allocation reduced. Forced upon us. We didn’t like having to play from 11am but the club decided and so it was. Didn’t stop the complainers. More complaining from members complaining that the rollup shouldn’t have allocated tee times on a Saturday. So the rollup was given no choice. Over the winter months we are competing for tee times with all other members.

And so for this Saturday - and for the next 5months, those wishing to play in the rollup notified the organisers ten days in advance and we are organised to book tee times for however many had signed up for it when booking opens.

To this Saturday, the first of the winter rollups. We had decided to take our chances and look to book tee times from our traditional start time of 10:30am. And that is what we’ve done. - eight consecutive tee times from 10:34am. Those moaning at us, have effectively got us organised and competing with them for tee times between 10:30am and 11am. Some of us…through devilment as much as anything else, pushed for booking from 9am or 9:30am..but we are a decent bunch of club members…and so that idea was quashed…for the time being.

And for those who think rollups such as our Saturday one are inevitably exclusive or elitist. A total of 67 members old and new played in our Saturday rollup this summer.

You’re missing the point somewhat, nobody has an issue with your roll up getting their preferred slots in a “fastest finger first” system, actually, well done, that’s the beauty of “first finger”

It’s the bragging and the “be careful what you wish for” comments that came across as arrogant snd pompous (imo).

Will you still feel so selfrighteous if next week your roll up slots are spread out over 3 hours or so?

 

[PaulMdj]

Again....rollups (at least the ones I've ever been part of) do not stop anybody from playing golf. Everybody still has access to those times. The people who are unhappy are the ones who ONLY want to play their way with just their mates. I've nothing against people wanting to play with just their friends.....I do the same thing at times.

Why are so many people against compromise? Why can't both ways of playing be accommodated?

Without being rude, you are a 5 day member, roll ups/swindles/societies are much easier to accommodate during the week.
Weekends are prime time, and the only time, for some members and equal access should be given to all.