GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Could be worse. For ages Croy train station (by Cumbernauld) had 3 chargers but only 2 bays...
Reducing carbon emissions
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
Could be worse. For ages Croy train station (by Cumbernauld) had 3 chargers but only 2 bays...
bobmac
Major Champion
You drive to Tesco, plug in free of charge, do your weekly shop, come out, unplug, drive home.
No time wasted queuing at the petrol station and free fuel.
Go back next week and do the same again.
Of course it won't be free forever but even the expensive rapid chargers are 28p per kw/h so £11 for 160 miles so the expensive charging is still less than half the price of petrol/diesel.
That over 80 mpg
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
I wasn't really meaning the cost of charging at that point though Bob. If we are charging per mile driven then the cost of charging is ballast surely?
My point was a charge per mile would adversely affect those that have to drive further by necessity. If you drive 1 mile to Tesco and charge for free and are charged 2 miles on the PPM model (say at 2p per mile for example) then immediately, before cost of charging is even factored in (or free) I am 16p per journey worse off for the same necessity drive but for no other reason than where I live.
MPG would play no part whatsoever in a PPM flat charge rate.
It will change, it must change (unless we all pay incredibly more income tax to fill the gap) but a simple PPM flat rate is yet another example of fair for some/unfair for others. There needs to be a middle ground where we pay for the "fuel" as there are cases where a car with shorter range will need to be charged more than a longer range vehicle, use more energy to cover the same, say 200 miles, but be charged the same for that 200 miles... Doesn't seem very fair to me.
Jimaroid
Journeyman Pro
It needs to change, I agree. The situation we have now does not work for the future. A new system that is capable of transitioning the gap in tax revenue between now and a future without ICE based taxation is required but the "new system" is not just a problem in the domain of electric vehicles. The problem is all energy consumption.
So it cannot be a mileage.
But even if it was mileage for EVs, it's still wrong, because; rural miles, urban miles, motorway miles, stationary miles and so on are all un-equivalent. Taxation based on unequal values is inherently wrong therefore unfair. It is scientifically wrong. It is mathematically wrong. It is politically wrong. It is morally wrong. It is the wrong thing to do.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
But at the same time. In a petrol car you pay more to drive from 2 miles out than you would a mile out - you'd burn more fuel? - I do understand some cars are more efficient than others.. A mustang over a mile may be more than a corsa over 2 but work with me here..
In a petrol car you simply buy more fuel if you drive more - a PPM system pretty much directly reflects that doesnt it - you buy more electric because you drive more miles?
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Yes, where MPG IS a factor. I can choose for my car to be efficient or in-efficient (mine is in-efficient for the record but damn is it fun!), PPM systems negate that choice by assuming parity where one EV might need charged every day and one charged once a week yet charged the same "running cost". Charging for energy used is surely the way to go, measured either by the vehicle or by an app of some sort. I'm sure that there can be "an app for that" as there seems to be for every other aspect of our lives.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Only problem I keep seeing with that is what if somebody charges using a home battery and solar system
Shouldn't that be free?
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Absolutely, and that should be THE incentive for people to go even more carbon neutral and install solar. Solar hasn't really become any more affordable in the last 20 years even as technology advances so I thin that may continue to be the case and would be a minority (just like now where there is a minority that get "free" VED, they would be supplanted by the solar users with the majority being charged).
As I've said there isn't a single simple solution - optimists will say "yes, there is" but each solution will penalise someone. It's where do we draw the line?
I am still mulling over solarising (that's my new word for it) my garage as my machinery in the workshop draws a lot of power. But it's not cheap and the Mrs says we have much more important things to spunk a few grand on before that is even on the radar (well, her radar).
bobmac
Major Champion
''The median cost of a 4kW installation has reduced from £20,000 in 2010 to £6,668 in 2017. This represents a 67% drop in median installation cost since 2010.''
https://greenbusinesswatch.co.uk/uk-domestic-solar-panel-costs-and-returns-2010-2017
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
I know the cost has dropped, that's why I specifically didn't say become cheaper.
Also the median cost, what is the mean cost?
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
The mid point - so the average really
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
My dream is solar and batteries
Enough to store energy and use to top up the house / car
Ideally 50kw battery .. that would manage itself so when I've used the solar it charges off the cheap times .. then as solar feeds in it supplies the house until it's full of solar again ..
That would mean I could never need the grid to supply the house just to fill the battery and means powercuts wouldnt affect me
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
No, only the value that sits at the middle of a range. Not the average (which is the mean)
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
So the mid point then......
So it's gone from really expensive to just expensive. It's still a lot and not on the radar for most people. I'd love it incidentally, I just can't justify it at this point.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Exactly that.
Ive got a driveway, a kitchen, a bathroom and a patio id rather address first...
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Which is why I used the word affordable and not cheap.
bobmac
Major Champion
A 4kw system today is £5685
https://ups-solar.co.uk/?gclid=CjwK...OcTKhO0HRxmEaEeBoWSE6B3NLVSyGnFhoC1ksQAvD_BwE
https://ups-solar.co.uk/?gclid=CjwK...OcTKhO0HRxmEaEeBoWSE6B3NLVSyGnFhoC1ksQAvD_BwE
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
This is the thing aswell does solar really add value to a house? Like a kitchen or bathroom would
A lot of people move based on their needs/ work etc
So would they want to spend 7k on panels?
Maybe when their retired and set to live there a long time
I'm in a unique position that we have picked our forever house. So anything I spend I don't factor getting back on sales I factor what benefit to our family, like the air con and the loft .. loft added more space air con allowed the house to be comfortable in the summer
Who would want to spend 7k on panels on a house that in 5 years they could be moving out of
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
And how does that equate to a standard home’s usage (genuinely I tersted as this is a part I haven’t looked at for a home setting (just the garage)
