Random Irritations

When people casually think that prohibition of expressing opinions is something good and progressive - of course under the guise of that others can be upset. I can think of a few countries where that school of thought has actually been put in practice, and neither of them are particularly nice places.
 
Lilyhawk said:
When people casually think that prohibition of expressing opinions is something good and progressive - of course under the guise of that others can be upset. I can think of a few countries where that school of thought has actually been put in practice, and neither of them are particularly nice places.
Click to expand...
The problem is when people who want the right to express any opinion they want, don’t want other people to have the right to challenge that opinion.

As is perfectly demonstrated in this topic.

Also, there are many people who can’t tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.
 
Worth remembering that causing offence is not a crime….

www.spectator.co.uk

The creeping criminalisation of causing offence

At a time when resources are scarce, the Merseyside Constabulary must have thought long and hard about its recent advertising campaign: a stern message to the people of the Wirral. ‘Being offensive,’ it declared, ‘is an offence.’ The slogan was put on a van along with text urging the public to...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk

Something the Merseyside Police had to be reminded about! 😄
 
Kaz said:
Is there a line? Where do you draw it?

So much outright ignorant bigotry masquerading as “opinion”.

For myself, I can’t decide if I’d rather the hate speech was suppressed or if it’s better knowing who the scumbags are.

Very surprised, though, by some of the things that seem permissible on such a heavily moderated forum as this. I guess GM have decided where the line is.
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Karen, you know full well that we can’t view every post and we therefore rely on people to use the report function on posts that you feel have crossed the line.

Feel free to help us out 👍
 
BiMGuy said:
The problem is when people who want the right to express any opinion they want, don’t want other people to have the right to challenge that opinion.

As is perfectly demonstrated in this topic.

Also, there are many people who can’t tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Click to expand...

This I agree with. I am of the view that anyone should be able to express and opinion as long as they are willing to be open about that opinion and are willing to have it debated and critiqued and to listen to contrary opinion. If people hold extreme opinions, they should also be willing to live with the consequences both legal and social of their desire to express them.

Sadly, considering where we are posting, I have expeirenced the most unpleasant stances and opinions in golf clubs where sexism, racism and all other issues are expressed, not directly so as to be debated but in supposed jokes and humour or in hushed whispers and innuendo when away from the clubhouse and in the distance on the course. That is almost worse to me. If you object to people based on something, say it, stand by your opinion and let those around you decide how they should react to it. I would rather know the true face of someone and make judgement on how I feel about them rather than be subjected to a public persona.
 
BiMGuy said:
The problem is when people who want the right to express any opinion they want, don’t want other people to have the right to challenge that opinion.

As is perfectly demonstrated in this topic.

Also, there are many people who can’t tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Click to expand...

It’s always going to be a tough one -


Always work on the mantra that with free speech’s comes responsibility

Free speech doesn’t mean that you are free to say whatever you want without fear of repercussions

PhilTheFragger said:
Karen, you know full well that we can’t view every post and we therefore rely on people to use the report function on posts that you feel have crossed the line.

Feel free to help us out 👍
Click to expand...

The problem is - where is the line , and who is deeming the line

Take the recent discussions on transgenders - it’s a minefield and the which ever way it’s discussed someone can be upset by someone’s else opinion but that doesn’t mean it’s not an opinion that cant be shared provided it’s done respectfully


For some there is only ever going to be two genders as an example , but someone will be offended by that if they expressed it


So my random irritation is - nowhere know where the hell we stand anymore between what can be said and what can’t be said as we roam this earth
 
Kaz said:
Is there a line? Where do you draw it?

So much outright ignorant bigotry masquerading as “opinion”.

For myself, I can’t decide if I’d rather the hate speech was suppressed or if it’s better knowing who the scumbags are.

Very surprised, though, by some of the things that seem permissible on such a heavily moderated forum as this. I guess GM have decided where the line is.
Click to expand...
Why don't you tell me where to draw it? Should we prosecute "bigotry"? What is hate speech?

"I hate all women and believe they shouldn't be let out of the kitchen." Should this be prosecutable if expressed? You never know, so it's best to clarify here that I do not hate all women and do not think that they should be kept locked in the kitchen. For those that hold this view though, I fully support their right to express their idiocy in order to know who not to be in contact with, but from that to forbidding them. Nope, not a chance.

Opinions you don't share you either a: debate directly with your "opponent", b: ignore and get on with your life, or c: you try and sway others to ignore those you don't agree with and let them fade out in nothingness if you're successful, they eventually have no one left to listen to them.

If being offended is cause for someone else to be prosecuted, every single one of us would be locked up.
 
BiMGuy said:
The problem is when people who want the right to express any opinion they want, don’t want other people to have the right to challenge that opinion.

As is perfectly demonstrated in this topic.

Also, there are many people who can’t tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Click to expand...
Based on your post history, I cannot think of a single thing that we agree on, and I would believe that you would say "likewise". It's not about being challenged. The issue here is when the "challenge" isn't on the topic, but it's suggested that the opinion shouldn't be able to be uttered at all. As said, based on your post history, it's clear to me that we are on the total opposite side on pretty much everything - but I don't argue for that you shouldn't be able to express your POV.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
It’s always going to be a tough one -


Always work on the mantra that with free speech’s comes responsibility

Free speech doesn’t mean that you are free to say whatever you want without fear of repercussions



The problem is - where is the line , and who is deeming the line

Take the recent discussions on transgenders - it’s a minefield and the which ever way it’s discussed someone can be upset by someone’s else opinion but that doesn’t mean it’s not an opinion that cant be shared provided it’s done respectfully


For some there is only ever going to be two genders as an example , but someone will be offended by that if they expressed it


So my random irritation is - nowhere know where the hell we stand anymore between what can be said and what can’t be said as we roam this earth
Click to expand...

This is true, the whole Transgender issue seems crazy to me. I can respect their choice but I certainly cannot accept the demand that they are treated like real women. I find it offensive to my wife and my mother.

Also the outrage that spews forth is ridiculous. As highlighted in the Spectator article "The SNP’s Hate Crime Bill could have led to J.K. Rowling being jailed for seven years for expressing her scorn at the term ‘people who menstruate’. There were plenty of activists who would gladly have seen her prosecuted" Its this sort of reaction that makes me think the world has gone mad.
 
Fade and Die said:
This is true, the whole Transgender issue seems crazy to me. I can respect their choice but I certainly cannot accept the demand that they are treated like real women. I find it offensive to my wife and my mother.

Also the outrage that spews forth is ridiculous. As highlighted in the Spectator article "The SNP’s Hate Crime Bill could have led to J.K. Rowling being jailed for seven years for expressing her scorn at the term ‘people who menstruate’. There were plenty of activists who would gladly have seen her prosecuted" Its this sort of reaction that makes me think the world has gone mad.
Click to expand...
Curiosity, are your wife and mother offended by it?
 
Fade and Die said:
My wife is massively. She just see's it as another example of misogyny. Just men trying to undermine women.

Out of interest what does your wife think of it? Does she think Dylan Mulvaney is just like her?
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As far as I know, she doesn't think much of it at all. It doesn't affect her and so she isn't bothered by it. As far as I know. She may harbour deep resentment, but hasn't told me or expressed any outrage that I can or have picked up on.

Are you being offended on behalf of your mother in this instance? Real question, I'm just curious how offence works in these situations that don't really intersect with our daily lives but are just "out there" in the distant world.
 
GreiginFife said:
As far as I know, she doesn't think much of it at all. It doesn't affect her and so she isn't bothered by it. As far as I know. She may harbour deep resentment, but hasn't told me or expressed any outrage that I can or have picked up on.

Are you being offended on behalf of your mother in this instance? Real question, I'm just curious how offence works in these situations that don't really intersect with our daily lives but are just "out there" in the distant world.
Click to expand...

Odd, do you not chat with your Mrs about current affairs? (Not a dig btw)

Regarding my Mum, I probably am offended on her behalf (and on behalf of all real women), she died long before Transgender was a thing, but she thought that Danny La Rue was a wrong’un so I am assuming she would not be receptive to men insisting they were real women. 😁
 
Fade and Die said:
Odd, do you not chat with your Mrs about current affairs? (Not a dig btw)

Regarding my Mum, I probably am offended on her behalf (and on behalf of all real women), she died long before Transgender was a thing, but she thought that Danny La Rue was a wrong’un so I am assuming she would not be receptive to men insisting they were real women. 😁
Click to expand...
Yeah, but, current affairs to us are things that directly affect us. Cost of living, the new SNP scandal, how crap the roads are and how noisy nightclubs are (ok that last one may not be true), but my point is my wife doesn't get upset by a man, or a woman, claiming to be anything else because it has no real impact on her and she just lets other folk get on with what they are doing. I do a similar thing. If it does start to impact on her, she may change that view.

I see, apologies that I assumed regarding your mum.
 
Lilyhawk said:
Based on your post history, I cannot think of a single thing that we agree on, and I would believe that you would say "likewise". It's not about being challenged. The issue here is when the "challenge" isn't on the topic, but it's suggested that the opinion shouldn't be able to be uttered at all. As said, based on your post history, it's clear to me that we are on the total opposite side on pretty much everything - but I don't argue for that you shouldn't be able to express your POV.
Click to expand...
I honestly couldn’t say what your posting history is to say we disagree on many things.

I’m very much in the live and let live camp. I couldn’t care less whether a man wants to be a woman, or the other way round. Just don’t force it in other people’s faces. And a person is welcome to have their opinion that may be the opposite of that.

Same goes for everything, religion, politics, sports.

What I don’t like are lazy stereotypes and people being raciest or sexist etc.
I will absolutely challenge those opinions and thoughts. As I do on here, sometimes by presenting their arguments back to see how they react.

I don’t do being offended, especially on the behalf of others. Apart from the time someone accused me of being from Manchester!
 
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