Playing to Handicap

[jim8flog]

I must admit to being more confused now than before.

I think I will wait until it comes into operation and the first time I play to see what happens.

Post 62# was the one that messed me up.

Talk about making things complicated

I find post #62 confusing as well and I have attended the workshop, read through all the briefing material at leisure and have just finished doing the briefing guides for our members.

It is not complicated if you forget all about SSS, CSS and what your handicap is at present.

There are just 4 things to think about

1. What is my handicap index, you will get this from the computer on the day of play.
2. What is the slope rating for the course I am playing. This will be found on the card or on the charts(see post #28)
3. Look at the charts to see my course handicap.
4. What is the format for the competition I am about to play and what is my playing handicap for that competition.

The only requirement is that your Handicap Index is correct and recorded on the card, if you make a mistake with any of the rest there is no penalty in stroke play.

 

[doublebogey7]

As you have said Handicap index is a calculation based upon scores and the slope rating does not come in to its calculation.

The higher the slope rating the more shots a player get as their course and subsequent playing handicap.

Based upon my current scores - my own calculations - my HI will go up 1 shot compared to my CONGU handicap and my course handicap will go up 2 shots compared to my CONGU handicap when I play off white tees .
For reference current CONGU 10, H.I. 11 and course 12

It will very much depend on the players best 8 in comparison with their current CONGU handicap.

For me there are more scores in the 8 worse than my handicap but when I did the calculations last year it came out almost the same.

I find that somewhat surprising, of the half a dozen calculations I've done for friends, all come out with a playing handicap at their home course equal to their CONGU handicap (ignoring the decimal point. Our Slope is 140.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I find post #62 confusing as well and I have attended the workshop, read through all the briefing material at leisure and have just finished doing the briefing guides for our members.

It is not complicated if you forget all about SSS, CSS and what your handicap is at present.

There are just 4 things to think about

1. What is my handicap index, you will get this from the computer on the day of play.
2. What is the slope rating for the course I am playing. This will be found on the card or on the charts(see post #28)
3. Look at the charts to see my course handicap.
4. What is the format for the competition I am about to play and what is my playing handicap for that competition.

The only requirement is that your Handicap Index is correct and recorded on the card, if you make a mistake with any of the rest there is no penalty in stroke play.

Thank you, much clearer.

 

[jim8flog]

I find that somewhat surprising, of the half a dozen calculations I've done for friends, all come out with a playing handicap at their home course equal to their CONGU handicap (ignoring the decimal point. Our Slope is 140.

I did the guys with whom I am playing tomorrow and we are all around the same standard all 3 players H.I. increased by one shot compared to their CONGU handicap Slope 128. (SSS 1 under the par and CSS often goes to 2 under the par for reference).

I have been thinking this through for some time now and I think the quicker you can get the best 8 all based upon playing under WHS rules the quicker your H.I. will reflect your ability.

 

[Springveldt]

Okay, I think I'm getting there.

Two golfers 4.6 index, one plays a rock hard track the other an easier track playing together at an away course. They are probably playing off different handicaps on the day?

How does this work with events with a handicap ballot?

No, their index is 4.6 so they would both have the same course handicap wherever they go.

The bit that is confusing you is how they are maintaining that 4.6 index.

In your case, since the course is hard and the css to maintain your 5 handicap is 32 points, while the other guy playing at Mickey Mouse course that has a css of 39 points he has to shoot a “better” score to maintain his handicap.

I know par is irrelevant but an easy way to describe it is at rock hard course you are getting 5+4+1 (handicap, css and buffer) so you can shoot 10 over par and not get a raise but the other guy at Mickey Mouse course is only getting 5-3+1 so he can only shoot 3 over or better to maintain.

When the WHS starts I’d imagine your course will be rated between 75 and 76 (if a par 72) so your handicap is measured against that (along with slope to get the differential).

As for events with handicap ballots and opens the only logical thing is your Index, that’s your true handicap.

 

[Springveldt]

On to the thread subject, I just counted and since the start of last season I’ve played 23 qualifiers and hit buffer or better in 9 of them. My handicap has come down from 10.0 to 9.0 in the same time.

 

[rulefan]

I gather the expectation is that HIs will be about 1 stroke up on CONGU exact. The majority range is likely to be 0 to 3, with a small %age at -1 and a small %age higher.
My guess is that high cappers on a course with a high slope will get the biggest increase

 

[Deleted member 3432]

No, their index is 4.6 so they would both have the same course handicap wherever they go.

The bit that is confusing you is how they are maintaining that 4.6 index.

In your case, since the course is hard and the css too maintain your 5 handicap is 32 points, while the other guy playing at Mickey Mouse course that has a css of 39 points he has to shoot a “better” score to maintain his handicap.

I know par is irrelevant but an easy way to describe it is at rock hard course you are getting 5+4+1 (handicap, css and buffer) so you can shoot 10 over par and not get a raise but the other guy at Mickey Mouse course is only getting 5-3+1 so he can only shoot 3 over or better to maintain.

When the WHS starts I’d imagine your course will be rated between 75 and 76 (if a par 72) so your handicap is measured against that (along with slope to get the differential).

As for event with handicap ballets and opens the only logical thing is your Index, that’s your true handicap.

This looks like evidence that the present system works just fine

 

[rulefan]

I have been thinking this through for some time now and I think the quicker you can get the best 8 all based upon playing under WHS rules the quicker your H.I. will reflect your ability.

And I'm sure CONGU agrees

 

[rulefan]

I must admit to being more confused now than before.
Post 62# was the one that messed me up.
Talk about making things complicated

1) The thing to fix in your mind is that Handicap Index is course independent. It is calculated from all the courses/tees you have played, whether that be one or a hundred and one. It uses the average of the best 8 scores from the last 20 rounds played. Don't worry for now what the formula is to calculate your score but it is not the number of strokes minus the SSS). But it is essentially the figure you use to compare with other players around the world. But is not used when actually playing

2) Your Course Handicap is the key number. It is determined from the Course Rating (old SSS) and the Slope of the tees you are to play. Again don't worry about the formula.
CR is the measure of difficulty for a scratch player. Slope indicates how the relative difficulty of the course increases with increases in handicap.

3) Your Playing Handicap is your Course Handicap times any %age Allowances (eg 95% for individual strokeplay, 100% matchplay). That is the number you use when playing.

4) After you have played, the Slope element of your Course Handicap is removed and your Gross Score (allowing for net double bogey) reduced by the Course Rating. That is your Score Differential. That is the figure included in your scoring record of the best 8 of the last 20.

Don't be concerned about any of the above as all of it will be taken care of by your club handicap software and step 2) additionally will be available on or near the first tee at all courses.

PS If you really need to know any of the formulae just ask.

 

[doublebogey7]

1) The thing to fix in your mind is that Handicap Index is course independent. It is calculated from all the courses/tees you have played, whether that be one or a hundred and one. It uses the average of the best 8 scores from the last 20 rounds played. Don't worry for now what the formula is to calculate your score but it is not the number of strokes minus the SSS). But it is essentially the figure you use to compare with other players around the world. But is not used when actually playing

2) Your Course Handicap is the key number. It is determined from the Course Rating (old SSS) and the Slope of the tees you are to play. Again don't worry about the formula.
CR is the measure of difficulty for a scratch player. Slope indicates how the relative difficulty of the course increases with increases in handicap.

3) Your Playing Handicap is your Course Handicap times any %age Allowances (eg 95% for individual strokeplay, 100% matchplay). That is the number you use when playing.

4) After you have played, the Slope element of your Course Handicap is removed and your Gross Score (allowing for net double bogey) reduced by the Course Rating. That is your Score Differential. That is the figure included in your scoring record of the best 8 of the last 20.

Don't be concerned about any of the above as all of it will be taken care of by your club handicap software and step 2) additionally will be available on or near the first tee at all courses.

PS If you really need to know any of the formulae just ask.

2). This is not what we were told on our WHS seminar nor does it say this on the slides we have been provided with. The course handicap is derived solely from your HI and the slope rating of the course to be played. The course rating is not used in the calculation. As I understood it some handicap authorities are using Course Rating but CONGU are not. Or has this changed??

 

[rosecott]

If a net par is 2 points then 36 points is playing to your handicap.....

You just don't get it, do you? 36 points is playing exactly to your handicap ONLY if your course par is equal to its SSS. If they are not equal, then 36 points is NOT playing exactly to your handicap.

 

[Rlburnside]

I thought I played to my h/c today with 36 points but when results came in the css went down to 69 , so would have had to have 38 points.

 

[NearHull]

Pretty much all golfers play to their expected standard pretty much all the time. Not playing to ones expected standard is almost unheard of. 14 handicappers just dont shoot level par. 5 handicappers just dont have 20 points.

I’m not wishing to get into a bun fight, but I have to disagree. Most players want to play close to their “expected standard” when they play, but generally fail to achieve it, most of the time by a handful of points. The examples that you have quoted are at the extreme ends of the spectrum but do happen occasionally.
My OP was trying to discuss whether that ‘handful of points’ short of expected standard is the norm.

 

[SammmeBee]

You just don't get it, do you? 36 points is playing exactly to your handicap ONLY if your course par is equal to its SSS. If they are not equal, then 36 points is NOT playing exactly to your handicap.

Stableford. A form of stroke play where: A player's or side's score for a hole is based on points awarded by comparing the player's or side's number of strokes on the hole (including strokes made and any penalty strokes) to a fixed target score for the hole set by the Committee....

 

[howbow88]

I can't be bothered to respond to each person on here, but shooting 36 points is shooting to your handicap when you get back to the bar. That also goes for medal too - net 71 (we're a par 71) means you shot to your handicap.

I think you guys think I don't understand the relationship between handicaps and SSS, and CSS. I do, and I get that for my course off the whites I would need to hit 38 points off the whites for a cut. Off the yellows, I would need a higher score (I don't know the SSS of our yellows). But I still think the idea that 36 is not shooting to your handicap is not a notion I can get on board with. Put it this way, I have never heard someone come into the bar saying 'Well at least I shot to my handicap today,' meaning that they hit 37 points. They would mean they have hit 36 points.

 

[rulefan]

2). This is not what we were told on our WHS seminar nor does it say this on the slides we have been provided with. The course handicap is derived solely from your HI and the slope rating of the course to be played. The course rating is not used in the calculation. As I understood it some handicap authorities are using Course Rating but CONGU are not. Or has this changed??

Oops. I wrote a note to myself some while ago with the 'other authorities' formula which includes CR and keep forgetting to annotate it with 'Not CONGU'. In fact I made the same mistake a few months ago in another thread
You are correct of course, the formula is
Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating / 113)

 

[Springveldt]

Stableford. A form of stroke play where: A player's or side's score for a hole is based on points awarded by comparing the player's or side's number of strokes on the hole (including strokes made and any penalty strokes) to a fixed target score for the hole set by the Committee....

I can't be bothered to respond to each person on here, but shooting 36 points is shooting to your handicap when you get back to the bar. That also goes for medal too - net 71 (we're a par 71) means you shot to your handicap.

I think you guys think I don't understand the relationship between handicaps and SSS, and CSS. I do, and I get that for my course off the whites I would need to hit 38 points off the whites for a cut. Off the yellows, I would need a higher score (I don't know the SSS of our yellows). But I still think the idea that 36 is not shooting to your handicap is not a notion I can get on board with. Put it this way, I have never heard someone come into the bar saying 'Well at least I shot to my handicap today,' meaning that they hit 37 points. They would mean they have hit 36 points.

Seriously guys.
36 points is playing to your handicap against par but par is irrelevant, it’s the CSS that counts.
This isn’t that hard...

 

[jim8flog]

2). This is not what we were told on our WHS seminar nor does it say this on the slides we have been provided with. The course handicap is derived solely from your HI and the slope rating of the course to be played. The course rating is not used in the calculation. As I understood it some handicap authorities are using Course Rating but CONGU are not. Or has this changed??

The slides that are used by WHS

https://www.dcgu.org.uk/uploads/dorsetcounty/File/WHS/Presentation slides.pdf Page 25

clearly show that course rating is used and essential to calculate gross differential and ongoing it is the best 8 differentials that decide H.I.

 

[rulefan]

The slides that are used by WHS

https://www.dcgu.org.uk/uploads/dorsetcounty/File/WHS/Presentation slides.pdf Page 25

clearly show that course rating is used and essential to calculate gross differential and ongoing it is the best 8 differentials that decide H.I.

Yes that's in point 4) of my original post. But doublebogey7 is correct that it is not used in the calculation of Course Handicap.
The CH formula doesn't appear until page 58.