Playing to Handicap

[Springveldt]

on a similar vein saying you are a single figure golfer may mean a different thing at different course.

I think that will come out in the wash when we go to WHS. I know it shouldn’t change much but I used the calculation in those slides that someone posted earlier in the thread and according to my last 20 rounds my handicap index is going to be 7.5 when I’m a 9.0 just now.
The fact that our course is rated at 71.1 (par 70) with a slope of 139 helps bring my handicap down.

 

[SammmeBee]

There is a Playing Conditions Calculation which is similar but not the same. Experience is showing that it only kicks in rarely and is normally 1 up or 1 down when it does


Not recognised by WHS (or CONGU for that matter).
A clue. It is called the World Handicapping System for a reason.

I haven’t mentioned WHS or PCC.....I’m just out for a game from some random tees....whites are too long on some holes and we can’t be bothered to walk back so we go from the yellows.....some the blues are more fun and a challenge......2 points a hole mean par so 36 points for 18 makes par which is level to my handicap

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I do wish people would forget par when rating their performance. It tells you nothing about your quality of play.
Take a course of 18 short par 4s (say 320 yards) each hole. Total length 5760. SSS 68 approx. Par 72
Take a course of 18 longer par 4s (say 420 yards) each hole. Total length 7560. SSS 76 approx. Par 72
Think about what SSS means.

As I generally only play my own track I have a constant measure to check against, and as it happens our par is same as our sss - but as I have always done so, I tend to think of and refer to my score against par as I go along, and so have a good idea of how well i've played when I look at by stableford points. I appreciate that knocking it round a par 72 SSS 64 in certain number of shots is quite different to knocking it round in the same number round a Par 72 SSS 74 course. And it is important to understand he difference so I don't fool myself

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our CSS for the yellow is 69 (-1) but 70 off the whites. To be honest it's a cliche but I really don't care about CSS in competitive play. Shoot as low as possible and the system will work out the CSS and adjust +/- accordingly. Play well and CSS goes in your favour it'll be a larger cut. You really can't control anything but how you score

 

[rulefan]

I haven’t mentioned WHS or PCC.....I’m just out for a game from some random tees....whites are too long on some holes and we can’t be bothered to walk back so we go from the yellows.....some the blues are more fun and a challenge......

So what was the point of your original question>

2 points a hole mean par so 36 points for 18 makes par which is level to my handicap

See post #101

 

[rosecott]

I haven’t mentioned WHS or PCC.....I’m just out for a game from some random tees....whites are too long on some holes and we can’t be bothered to walk back so we go from the yellows.....some the blues are more fun and a challenge......2 points a hole mean par so 36 points for 18 makes par which is level to my handicap

Why not just play every hole from the reds, tell your mates in the bar that you scored 42 points and award yourself a large handicap reduction?

 

[jim8flog]

I think that will come out in the wash when we go to WHS. I know it shouldn’t change much but I used the calculation in those slides that someone posted earlier in the thread and according to my last 20 rounds my handicap index is going to be 7.5 when I’m a 9.0 just now.
The fact that our course is rated at 71.1 (par 70) with a slope of 139 helps bring my handicap down.

That is your handicap index. Your course handicap will still be 9 on that course with that tee.

 

[SammmeBee]

So what was the point of your original question>


See post #101

I thought the back(ish) tees were the only one out there?!

That 36 points is level handicap as long as it’s not some kind of official nonsense that everyone seems to cling to! 34+ yeah that’s ok.....27 ain’t so.....

 

[Backsticks]

And here we find the reason why you won't listen to all the people explaining the correct answer... VANITY.

You play at a mickey mouse easy course where SSS is 2 less than par. It's nicer to compare your score against par because it makes you look better than you are!!!

I think he knows that as long as his score is under a slightly skewed to the low side, almost normal curve, centred on SSS-hc/5, then he is probably playing to his handicap. And that to really know the answer to whether he played to his handicap or not, he needs to consider at least his five previous scores to approach any reasonable confidence level, and preferably 10 rounds or more to be have a strong chance of being within a shot of it.

 

[sunshine]

That is your handicap index. Your course handicap will still be 9 on that course with that tee.

True, but the handicap index is the portable number that people will quote as their handicap.

 

[ScienceBoy]

This sort of discussion is fine for the forum, I would warn anyone off taking it to the course however.

Any excuse for your mind is a signal to switch off and ignore your goals.

 

[Ethan]

I have searched for this topic on the forums but didn’t locate anything that matches. I thought the subject would have been well discussed, apologies if it is repetition.

A common topic of conversation during our rounds is how often should we expect to play to handicap. I suppose that as the most form of golf played at my course is Stableford, then the question is, should I be overly concerned that my regular return is around 30 pts? Since we came back to golf, I‘ve played a dozen or so times returning one 38 and one 35 card. Most of my playing partners agree that we should expect to return 36-39 points only three times a season, yet I observe some players regularly returning cards in this range far more often.
Should it matter, I am playing off 11.4 and have been down to 10 (actually 9.9 for two weeks - so I could, with tongue firmly held in cheek, claim to be a single figure golfer once ?) and I am in receipt of the State Pension.

What are your expectations, and are those expectations linked to the handicap level?

The problem with golf scores is twofold (a) that they are skewed around an average, meaning that the worst score is a lot further from the average than the best score, and (b) variability in scores (the range) is larger for less skilled players. This means that a handicap system based around average scores will never allow players of differing abilities to compete on an even basis because the best scores of less killed players are further away from their average.

So handicap systems are always based on a better than average score although the CONGU and US handicap systems deal with them slightly differently. The COINGU system currently uses an asymmetrical system to reconcile good scores and bad scores. Good scores reduce the handicaps by a larger and open ended amount, bad scores increase it by a smaller and capped amount. The exact balance point depends a bit on the player. Very consistent players will tend to see their handicaps fall more slowly than inconstant players because the handicap systems places more downward pressure on handicaps. The US system (and soon to be CONGU/World system) uses basically the same asymmetrical principle but bases handicaps on a moving average based on the mean of the best 10 of the last 20 (8/20 in new system). This means the handicap will be based around the mean of the 5th and 6th best score in the last 20, so around the 25-30th percentile score.

So in both systems, you should probably expect to beat handicap in around 1/4 rounds and do worse in 3/4. In some cases the margin will be small and to a decimal place, so will effectively will feel more like you matched playing handicap.

 

[Backsticks]

The problem with golf scores is twofold (a) that they are skewed around an average, meaning that the worst score is a lot further from the average than the best score, and (b) variability in scores (the range) is larger for less skilled players. This means that a handicap system based around average scores will never allow players of differing abilities to compete on an even basis because the best scores of less killed players are further away from their average.

The better skilled players more than recover that differential through their narrow range of scores than the less skilled players. They wont indeed have the 43 point day, and you will here them say 'how can you compete with that? Its impossible to win as a low hc'. But overall, they do have a greater chance of winning than the high h/c. Putting them selves in contention more often increases their chances. This is the 'bonus for excellence' that has been observed.

So in both systems, you should probably expect to beat handicap in around 1/4 rounds and do worse in 3/4. In some cases the margin will be small and to a decimal place, so will effectively will feel more like you matched playing handicap.

I dont think that 1/4 is correct. Is that not for buffer zone or better. It varies with h/c, where the lower hc will beat it more often, even if only by a stroke or two, whereas the higher hc will beat it more rarely but with a higher probability of that being by 3-6 strokes. Once in 10-15 rounds is more the rate of beating your congu handicap I think.

 

[BeGood]

My simplistic view is that, given how it is calculated, your handicap is you on a very good day and therefore you should expect to only shoot it occasionally.

I hear what you say, but I have never really understood that reasoning / method of calculation. I can play to my handicap most of the time (probably 8 times out of 10) but there is a caveat! This is in general play off the yellow tees. As with many courses, playing off the white tees makes life significantly harder (especially with the wind blowing!), so playing to your handicap when the course is about 240 yds longer, plus the added pressure of competition, is why not many manage it under those conditions. I am told that we are heading for a situation where we will have to submit every card, which would certainly give the handicap system a bit of a shake up...

 

[Ethan]

The better skilled players more than recover that differential through their narrow range of scores than the less skilled players. They wont indeed have the 43 point day, and you will here them say 'how can you compete with that? Its impossible to win as a low hc'. But overall, they do have a greater chance of winning than the high h/c. Putting them selves in contention more often increases their chances. This is the 'bonus for excellence' that has been observed.

I dont think that 1/4 is correct. Is that not for buffer zone or better. It varies with h/c, where the lower hc will beat it more often, even if only by a stroke or two, whereas the higher hc will beat it more rarely but with a higher probability of that being by 3-6 strokes. Once in 10-15 rounds is more the rate of beating your congu handicap I think.

Statistically the handicap is set around the 25th percentile of your range of scores, so it is roughly that, although as I say the amount by which it is "better" than handicap may be decimal fractions which would not have affected handicap under the old/current system. Under the new handicap system which is based on the average of the best 8 of the last 20, that will ratchet it up slightly to around the 20th percentile.

 

[howbow88]

And here we find the reason why you won't listen to all the people explaining the correct answer... VANITY.

You play at a mickey mouse easy course where SSS is 2 less than par. It's nicer to compare your score against par because it makes you look better than you are!!!

Not at all. I would consider shooting 36 as 'playing to my handicap,' even if I were on a course where the SSS is higher than par.

What's with the caps lock and triple exclamation marks? Are you ok?

 

[jim8flog]

True, but the handicap index is the portable number that people will quote as their handicap.

What you mean like people who say shooting 36 points is playing to handicap

 

[Backsticks]

Statistically the handicap is set around the 25th percentile of your range of scores, so it is roughly that, although as I say the amount by which it is "better" than handicap may be decimal fractions which would not have affected handicap under the old/current system.

That still even feels far too high for actually beating CSS, even looking at a typical results list. From my club, 6 to 12 will beat it on an average weekend, from 100-120 entries.

 

[Ethan]

That still even feels far too high for actually beating CSS, even looking at a typical results list. From my club, 6 to 12 will beat it on an average weekend, from 100-120 entries.

But a few will be in the buffer zone which round my place is 35-37 points. Did they beat their handicap (some, maybe) or do you mean that only a few will get a reduction?

 

[Backsticks]

But a few will be in the buffer zone which round my place is 35-37 points. Did they beat their handicap (some, maybe) or do you mean that only a few will get a reduction?

Anyone beating CSS gets a reduction. Buffer zone, surely, is more than 35-37 unless you are exceptionally easy course. For a cat 4, with 4 shots, then CSS is hardly normally 39-41 ? Even if so, you still arent likely to have more 5-10% exceeding it let alone 25%.