Playing to Handicap

[Deleted member 3432]

The question I would ask is - have you actually taken the time and trouble to work out what what your Handicap Index etc is where you play?
Whilst your handicap index may not vary much from your current handicap it could be that your playing handicap does because your course has a very high slope rating.

What course do you play at? Any course with a slope rating greater than 113 will produce a course handicap higher than a players handicap index.

It may well be over time that you see a change to your HI which reflects the way it is calculated. ie based upon scores that have a slope rating compared to the current system which does not. The system always uses the course rating (current SSS) as the basis for the calculation.

I must admit to being more confused now than before.

I think I will wait until it comes into operation and the first time I play to see what happens.

Post 62# was the one that messed me up.

Talk about making things complicated

 

[ScienceBoy]

You certainly shouldn't expect to, unless you are a bandit. -snip-

Completely get the point of your post, you are correct. My post was about the mental approach, if you go out saying you will only shoot your handicap one in every x rounds then you will likely do that and never improve.

I’m saying put in place a mental approach, a game plan and practice routine to shoot your handicap or better and use the times you don’t as a way to improve.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I consider my handicap as being indicative of how well I can score if the luck mostly goes my way and I don't hit any real stinkers - I'll get 36pts.

If the luck all goes my way and I don't hit any stinkers and a few goodies I'll play a handful below my handicap - so let's say 40pts stableford.

If my day is a normal golf day, and I get some good and some bad luck; hit a few real goodies and only a couple of baddies - then that's my normal - and I'll score something like 32-34pts.

On a bad day - all luck running against me; no real goodies and a few real baddies then I'll score 28-32pts.

How things will change with the new system I don't know. But as we came down a bundle as a result of a good day - but only went up a little on a bad one - my handicap was my stretch score...so 36pts I was delighted.

 

[CountLippe]

I must admit to being more confused now than before.

I think I will wait until it comes into operation and the first time I play to see what happens.

Post 62# was the one that messed me up.

Talk about making things complicated

Basically, as I understand it:

Rule of thumb - if the standard scratch on the normal tees at your home course is 3 above Par, add 3 to your current handicap (ie index) and this will be your playing handicap at home, only ever valid playing at home.

Working backwards, it should be equally difficult to shoot 36points on every course. Therefore this playing handicap will be different everywhere you play.

All worked out by maths which will give you a headache.

 

[Captainron]

I’ve not played to my handicap for a long time now. Been poor.

 

[sunshine]

Okay, I think I'm getting there.

Two golfers 4.6 index, one plays a rock hard track the other an easier track playing together at an away course. They are probably playing off different handicaps on the day?

How does this work with events with a handicap ballot?

OK, this is my interpretation of how the new system works. The numbers are made up:

Two golfers, both off 5 under CONGU system, one at a super tough course like Carnoustie, the other at a Mickey Mouse short easy course. We all know the golfer at the tough course is in reality a much better player. SSS is supposed to adjust for difficulty of the course, but it's based on scratch golfers and doesn't work for handicap golfers. The 5 handicapper at Mickey Mouse GC might only be able to hit driver 200 yards, but that doesn't matter on a short course with no carries. At a tough course this golfer can't even reach the fairway!

The new system should address this in an equitable way.
The Carnoustie golfer has a course handicap of 9 at Carnoustie off the white tees, but this equates to a handicap index of 5. The handicap index is what travels, this is used as the base to determine playing handicap at other courses.
The Mickey Mouse golfer has a course handicap of 5 at Mickey Mouse GC, but this equates to a handicap index of 7. When Mickey Mouse golfer travels to Carnoustie they play to a course handicap of 11.

I'm making up the numbers, but this is the general idea.

 

[sunshine]

Completely get the point of your post, you are correct. My post was about the mental approach, if you go out saying you will only shoot your handicap one in every x rounds then you will likely do that and never improve.

I’m saying put in place a mental approach, a game plan and practice routine to shoot your handicap or better and use the times you don’t as a way to improve.

Expectation and reality are not the same thing!

 

[nickjdavis]

This is how I understand it, but to add each course will have a course rating (equivalent to SSS) so scoring 36 points will still mean you've played to your handicap only on course with a course rating the same as par.

I cannot agree. Which course rating do you plan to use to determine how many stableford points is equivalent to "playing to handicap"? (There are 2 ratings under the new system....not just one)

Every course will have a course rating for a SCRATCH golfer and one for a BOGEY golfer. That is how the slope rating is calculated. Where you are on that slope determines how many shots you get on the course you are playing. Why should a player with say a 20 handicap index then use the SCRATCH course rating to determine whether his score, relative to par, is actually playing to handicap?

That's the whole point of slope...it takes into account the relative differences in difficulty for any ability golfer to play a particular course, compared to a scratch golfer, and allocates them an appropriate number of handicap strokes for their round. The Course Rating is effectively already included in the calculation of the number of strokes a player receives because it is a fundamental part of the calculation of the Slope Rating. It is therefore not relevant when determining whether 35,36,37 points is considered "playing to handicap".

 

[mikejohnchapman]

36 points is playing to your handicap.

Depends on the tee used.

At our place yes from the whites but not from the Yellows (would need to be 38 points.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

OK, this is my interpretation of how the new system works. The numbers are made up:

Two golfers, both off 5 under CONGU system, one at a super tough course like Carnoustie, the other at a Mickey Mouse short easy course. We all know the golfer at the tough course is in reality a much better player. SSS is supposed to adjust for difficulty of the course, but it's based on scratch golfers and doesn't work for handicap golfers. The 5 handicapper at Mickey Mouse GC might only be able to hit driver 200 yards, but that doesn't matter on a short course with no carries. At a tough course this golfer can't even reach the fairway!

The new system should address this in an equitable way.
The Carnoustie golfer has a course handicap of 9 at Carnoustie off the white tees, but this equates to a handicap index of 5. The handicap index is what travels, this is used as the base to determine playing handicap at other courses.
The Mickey Mouse golfer has a course handicap of 5 at Mickey Mouse GC, but this equates to a handicap index of 7. When Mickey Mouse golfer travels to Carnoustie they play to a course handicap of 11.

I'm making up the numbers, but this is the general idea.

Thank you, this makes things much clearer and is close to my original perception before it got over complicated for my small brain.

So when someone says they are off 5 it can mean all sorts of things

 

[rulefan]

I consider my handicap as being indicative of how well I can score if the luck mostly goes my way and I don't hit any real stinkers - I'll get 36pts.

I do wish people would forget par when rating their performance. It tells you nothing about your quality of play.
Take a course of 18 short par 4s (say 320 yards) each hole. Total length 5760. SSS 68 approx. Par 72
Take a course of 18 longer par 4s (say 420 yards) each hole. Total length 7560. SSS 76 approx. Par 72
Think about what SSS means.

 

[doublebogey7]

I cannot agree. Which course rating do you plan to use to determine how many stableford points is equivalent to "playing to handicap"? (There are 2 ratings under the new system....not just one)

Every course will have a course rating for a SCRATCH golfer and one for a BOGEY golfer. That is how the slope rating is calculated. Where you are on that slope determines how many shots you get on the course you are playing. Why should a player with say a 20 handicap index then use the SCRATCH course rating to determine whether his score, relative to par, is actually playing to handicap?

That's the whole point of slope...it takes into account the relative differences in difficulty for any ability golfer to play a particular course, compared to a scratch golfer, and allocates them an appropriate number of handicap strokes for their round. The Course Rating is effectively already included in the calculation of the number of strokes a player receives because it is a fundamental part of the calculation of the Slope Rating. It is therefore not relevant when determining whether 35,36,37 points is considered "playing to handicap".

But, a players gross differential will be calculated from the scratch course rating. so on balance, my view remains the same. This is really a matter of personal interpretation, so have no intention of continuing the discussion.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I rarely play to my handicap even in social rounds. I am managing to get buffer zones in various ways (hitting badly and scrambling, hitting better, losing more balls) and so there is a degree of consistency at the moment that is pleasing. To be honest I rarely worry about my handicap and playing to it. I've always had the mindset if it goes wrong then it's only 0.1 and if I play well then the cuts will take care of itself. Just go out and play without adding any extra pressure

 

[rulefan]

But, a players gross differential will be calculated from the scratch course rating. so on balance, my view remains the same. This is really a matter of personal interpretation, so have no intention of continuing the discussion.

But the score will have been 'de-sloped' before caclulating the differential.

 

[rulefan]

I rarely play to my handicap even in social rounds. I am managing to get buffer zones in various ways (hitting badly and scrambling, hitting better, losing more balls) and so there is a degree of consistency at the moment that is pleasing. To be honest I rarely worry about my handicap and playing to it. I've always had the mindset if it goes wrong then it's only 0.1 and if I play well then the cuts will take care of itself. Just go out and play without adding any extra pressure

That's the way to do it

 

[Backsticks]

I think my question could also be reworded to “How often do you play to your expected standard?”

Pretty much all golfers play to their expected standard pretty much all the time. Not playing to ones expected standard is almost unheard of. 14 handicappers just dont shoot level par. 5 handicappers just dont have 20 points.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Expectation and reality are not the same thing!

That’s why half my post was about not achieving expectation! Go out with a winning mentality but always ready to learn and improve too.

 

[Backsticks]

I consider my handicap as being indicative of how well I can score if the luck mostly goes my way and I don't hit any real stinkers - I'll get 36pts.

If the luck all goes my way and I don't hit any stinkers and a few goodies I'll play a handful below my handicap - so let's say 40pts stableford.

If my day is a normal golf day, and I get some good and some bad luck; hit a few real goodies and only a couple of baddies - then that's my normal - and I'll score something like 32-34pts.

On a bad day - all luck running against me; no real goodies and a few real baddies then I'll score 28-32pts.

How things will change with the new system I don't know. But as we came down a bundle as a result of a good day - but only went up a little on a bad one - my handicap was my stretch score...so 36pts I was delighted.

Thats the correct way to see it. I think it also leads to better enjoyment of the game, and to realistic enjoyment of it. People not understanding that this is the way the hc system works only get frustrated and you hear such lines "thats 5 rounds now between 31 and 34. I just cant play to my handicap.". But they just did.

 

[SammmeBee]

If a net par is 2 points then 36 points is playing to your handicap.....

 

[jim8flog]

I think you have this wrong, where a course has a relatively high course rating your WHS Handicap Index (HI) is expected to be lower than your CONGU handicap. as when making the initial HI is calculated your top 8 scores will be de-sloped. Your playing handicap under WHS is likely to be very similar to your CONGU handicap wherever you play most of your golf.

As you have said Handicap index is a calculation based upon scores and the slope rating does not come in to its calculation.

The higher the slope rating the more shots a player get as their course and subsequent playing handicap.

Based upon my current scores - my own calculations - my HI will go up 1 shot compared to my CONGU handicap and my course handicap will go up 2 shots compared to my CONGU handicap when I play off white tees .
For reference current CONGU 10, H.I. 11 and course 12

It will very much depend on the players best 8 in comparison with their current CONGU handicap.

For me there are more scores in the 8 worse than my handicap but when I did the calculations last year it came out almost the same.