bluewolf
Money List Winner
Someone has to be
oh, and for the 3rd time, the German system relies on heavy employer contribution, is more expensive per capita and ranks lower than the NHS. Explain again why it's better?
oh, and for the 3rd time, the German system relies on heavy employer contribution, is more expensive per capita and ranks lower than the NHS. Explain again why it's better?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Over £900million spent last year on agency nurses. These are nurses that can just decide to not bother...besides that's one hell of a lot 'private' nursing.
Agency nurse or no nurse... what would you choose? Would you switch the £900 mill to training? But that would mean no agency nurses = staffing shortage. It isn't a problem that can be put right overnight.
And where do the majority of agency nurses come from? They're regular NHS nurses supplementing their NHS pay.
As to your entitlement and unachieveable post... pop down to the High Street on Saturday and Sunday and see how many shops are open. It is achieveable if more staff are brought in.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Someone has to be
oh, and for the 3rd time, the German system relies on heavy employer contribution, is more expensive per capita and ranks lower than the NHS. Explain again why it's better?
I have no objection to you repeating yourself if it makes you happy :thup:
I have worked a lot in Germany and have seen how good the supply of health services are. It seems as good as ours and possibly better.
It is funded by Employers and Employee contributions just like the NHS and used by 90% of the population, they use around 200 insurance companies in the scheme who are non profit organisations. When I suggested it was our money funding it I was referring to NI contributions that are also made by Employer and Employee, as you are aware. The main difference in Germany is it is compulsory for people earning up to 48,000 Euro per year and optional after that where you can provide your own insurance.
The NHS is a state run business and a monopoly . IMO such organisations tend to waste too much money and be very inefficient. I agree the health service needs direction and a level of control from Government though.
I accept you probably have a different view and you are of course entitled to it, however misguided
bluewolf
Money List Winner
I have no objection to you repeating yourself if it makes you happy :thup:
I have worked a lot in Germany and have seen how good the supply of health services are. It seems as good as ours and possibly better.
It is funded by Employers and Employee contributions just like the NHS and used by 90% of the population, they use around 200 insurance companies in the scheme who are non profit organisations. When I suggested it was our money funding it I was referring to NI contributions that are also made by Employer and Employee, as you are aware. The main difference in Germany is it is compulsory for people earning up to 48,000 Euro per year and optional after that where you can provide your own insurance.
The NHS is a state run business and a monopoly . IMO such organisations tend to waste too much money and be very inefficient. I agree the health service needs direction and a level of control from Government though.
I accept you probably have a different view and you are of course entitled to it, however misguided
It's a fairly good synopsis, if a little "Optimistic". It's common knowledge in Germany that the set up of the system actually encourages over-prescription and over-diagnosis. This is why the system is actually more expensive per capita than the NHS.
Due to the way that Doctors earn their "wage", The system also encourages the movement of Doctors from rural areas to high density population areas so that they can increase their income. This means that they suffer from what we call the "Health postcode lottery", but in a slightly worse form.
For clarity, I have taken some of the facts and figures on this thread from sites such as Wiki etc. I have taken the anecdotal evidence from my Mother who was born in Lubeck, Northern Germany and moved here as a child. I still have cousins etc in Northern Germany and whilst they are happy with the system, they do think that the systems in France and the UK are better as they offer a better average service at all levels.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
The simple fact in, even taking into account newly qualified nurses, we simply cannot recruit enough nurses, especially experienced to ever get to full compliment per ward before you even factor in leave and sickness and so agencies or closing wards/turning away patients. It's a no brainer and to say "nurses that can just decide not to bother" is simply stupid. For many this gives them the flexibilty to work around family and childcare where more rigid NHS shifts may not work. Many hospitals are now insisting staff work across all shifts including long days (but of course still allow part-time working) to ensure cover throughout. Without getting enough staff in, agency staff will always be a necessary evil and it's how this is managed ongoing that will have a huge influence into how NHS budgets are allowed to be managed
I shared a flat with a couple of German doctors when working in the NHS. They thought our NHS was fantastic, until you reach old age - "I will go back to Germany when I grow old because you don't look after your old people," one of them often said.
And I know Lubeck very well. Head office is there.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I worked in Ludenshied near Dortmund many years ago but more lately around Stuttgart with the Swabisher Volk (their accent is a bit like Gordie German) who would refer to your cousins as 'Fish Kopf' They also have a North South divide
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Never a truer word spoken. Our treatment of our elderly is criminal really..
I haven't been back to Lubeck since I was a child. All I really remember is the City walls. That and the fact they were hugely proud of the nickname - The City that stood up to Hitler.. It cost them though. They had their City Charter revoked and were governed from Hamburg after that..
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