NHS Warning

[cliveb]

Indeed, and the fact that the USA spend more per capita on healthcare than anywhere else in the world proves that spending more money does not necessarily mean you get a better product.

They also have significantly worse outcomes despite the level of spending.
The reason is almost certainly because whereas most countries have a healthcare system whose primary objective is to treat patients, the US system's primary objective is to make a profit.

 

[Fade and Die]

They also have significantly worse outcomes despite the level of spending.
The reason is almost certainly because whereas most countries have a healthcare system whose primary objective is to treat patients, the US system's primary objective is to make a profit.

Yes, it would be interesting to see how much goes to big pharma.

 

[Fade and Die]

That of course as some truth in it. Though up until early last decade the UK healthcare system was internationally recognised as one, if not the one, most efficient systems in the world. What do you think may have changed in that time.

I don’t know what has changed. Spending since 2009 has been increasing year on year…
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

And the political landscape has been consistent for the last 13 years.

I did read that managers have increased by 125% since covid, by contrast Nursing levels have only raised by 7%.?

What’s your view on the reason for the dip?

 

[Swango1980]

I've had a dodgy knee for over a year, but really hurt it a month ago when playing footy. Been struggling since. Paying to just go to physios. Haven't even considered going to doctor. May well be a good idea, but with so much media coverage that NHS is on its knees, I just think it isn't even worth it. Even if I get an appointment, just feel like I'm wasting their time when they could be seeing properly ill people.

 

[PJ87]

I've had a dodgy knee for over a year, but really hurt it a month ago when playing footy. Been struggling since. Paying to just go to physios. Haven't even considered going to doctor. May well be a good idea, but with so much media coverage that NHS is on its knees, I just think it isn't even worth it. Even if I get an appointment, just feel like I'm wasting their time when they could be seeing properly ill people.

If your going physio and paying they should be able to assist you

I go see my physio friend for any injuries unless he says they are too serious then I go Dr

I had a knee issue last year, paid for a private MRI (£300) and the results came within 3 days with a break down of the issue (not as serious as feared) didn't have to bother the NHS

 

[Swango1980]

If your going physio and paying they should be able to assist you

I go see my physio friend for any injuries unless he says they are too serious then I go Dr

I had a knee issue last year, paid for a private MRI (£300) and the results came within 3 days with a break down of the issue (not as serious as feared) didn't have to bother the NHS

Yeah. I went the day after I really hurt it. Too swollen to know for sure the issue. Week after, felt ligaments were OK. Last week, thinking it was meniscus. I've been improving, but now seems to have stabilised to a point where I can walk, but sore and painful pretty quickly.

Next time I go, they may do ultrasound, but I said I'd be happy enough to get an MRI if they felt it would help. Clearly, there is nothing obvious when they get me to do standard movements, so I suspect there is something subtle. Had an X Ray and ultrasound about 2 years ago, as I had problems then. Looked OK generally, but possibly a rough edge on bone that was catching the meniscus.

 

[Hobbit]

The problems are myriad. Saying it’s x, or it’s y isn’t very bright.

Funding; it’s very much underfunded, massively so. Let’s look at it from several aspects. Year 1 they receive a 4% increase in funding. Sounds good but there’s a cost improvement programme of, say, 3%. In effect, they’ve only received a 1% increase in funding, ergo 3% down on what is ‘advertised.’ This has been going on for the 30yrs I worked for and with the NHS. Secondly, new drugs/equipment/procedures. Because they are new they invariably won’t be 4% more expensive than the old drugs/equipment/procedures - the outcomes will be better but it comes at a significant cost increase above the 4%, or 1% in real terms. And if the real terms increase received is 1%, how do they give meaningful Pay rises?

Management: Your best nurse, doctor, clinical services staff are exactly that. Best in their dept. Sadly, and it’s not just in healthcare, your best at xxx doesn’t necessarily make your best manager. And when the non-clinical training budget is virtually non-existent, turning that nurse, doc, other staff into good managers is hard.

PFI’s and privatisation; there’s very few hospitals where the non-clinical, and some clinical areas aren’t already privatised. When wholly run by NHS staff, and you’ve got to go back over 20yrs to find that, virtually all the money stayed spent between depts stayed within the NHS. If a private company needs to return a 6% dividend on its shares, have money for inward investment and cover its cost you have a lot of money not doing the rounds within the NHS.

A long since retired MP made a comment on BBC Question Time many years ago that if the above isn’t factored into running the NHS, it will fail. There is no wriggle room anymore in the NHS for cost cutting or outsourcing. It’s all been done to death. The service you’re getting now, excluding some critical care areas, will continue to decline if a radical change doesn’t happen.

 

[BiMGuy]

The NHS is only underfunded if you believe it’s being run as efficiently as it can be and that it is providing the correct level of service for the needs of the country.

 

[PJ87]

Yeah. I went the day after I really hurt it. Too swollen to know for sure the issue. Week after, felt ligaments were OK. Last week, thinking it was meniscus. I've been improving, but now seems to have stabilised to a point where I can walk, but sore and painful pretty quickly.

Next time I go, they may do ultrasound, but I said I'd be happy enough to get an MRI if they felt it would help. Clearly, there is nothing obvious when they get me to do standard movements, so I suspect there is something subtle. Had an X Ray and ultrasound about 2 years ago, as I had problems then. Looked OK generally, but possibly a rough edge on bone that was catching the meniscus.

I thought I'd either done my ACL again (or done something to graft that was used to secure my fake ligament)
Or I'd done the meniscus

Went for the MRI , results came back a very rare muscle strain (hard to strain but I managed it) it goes around the knee and mimics a meniscus injury but fixes itself in 6 weeks

Well worth the money to put the mind at rest

 

[doublebogey7]

I don’t know what has changed. Spending since 2009 has been increasing year on year…
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

And the political landscape has been consistent for the last 13 years.

I did read that managers have increased by 125% since covid, by contrast Nursing levels have only raised by 7%.?

What’s your view on the reason for the dip?

Might your first paragraph answer the question.

While it's true budgets have increased all other G7 have increased there's by significantly more than us.

I am going to stop now, as there's a danger this moves on to a banned subject.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Might your first paragraph answer the question.

While it's true budgets have increased all other G7 have increased there's by significantly more than us.

I am going to stop now, as there's a danger this moves on to a banned subject.

Quite. All sorts of assertions, stuff and nonsense can be posted on here about public services, public service funding, and public servants but the underlying answer can’t be stated in reply…and so the rubbish goes largely unchallenged.

 

[SocketRocket]

Quite. All sorts of assertions, stuff and nonsense can be posted on here about public services, public service funding, and public servants but the underlying answer can’t be stated in reply…and so the rubbish goes largely unchallenged.

How much money does the NHS need to do a better job and how should we find the increase.

 

[PJ87]

And realistically

Reform middle management, streamline and save money whilst boosting funding inline with inflation, wealth tax and windfall tax applied

1% increase in income tax 2% in 40% 1% in 45% tax

Make 46% tax payable from 100k but keep personal allowance.

Reform childcare to boost the economy so nobody leaves work because of cost of childcare

Etc etc

 

[SocketRocket]

Reform middle management, streamline and save money whilst boosting funding inline with inflation, wealth tax and windfall tax applied

1% increase in income tax 2% in 40% 1% in 45% tax

Make 46% tax payable from 100k but keep personal allowance.

Reform childcare to boost the economy so nobody leaves work because of cost of childcare

Etc etc

I ask again, How much money do they need? You can't suggest how it could be raised untill you answer that.

 

[PJ87]

I ask again, How much money do they need? You can't suggest how it could be raised untill you answer that.

What you need to do is properly fund social care..that's the main cause of bed blocking in the NHS which causes a lot of the issues as there is nowhere for people.to be discharged to.

Fund that and the NHS will slowly recover.

You can't put a number on it until it's streamlined of management and social care is taken care of as ATM it is treating the symptoms not the cause.

 

[SocketRocket]

What you need to do is properly fund social care..that's the main cause of bed blocking in the NHS which causes a lot of the issues as there is nowhere for people.to be discharged to.

Fund that and the NHS will slowly recover.

You can't put a number on it until it's streamlined of management and social care is taken care of as ATM it is treating the symptoms not the cause.

I thought you said closing down Westminster would cover it?

 

[Hobbit]

NHS ranking in 2013.

What you need to do is properly fund social care..that's the main cause of bed blocking in the NHS which causes a lot of the issues as there is nowhere for people.to be discharged to.

Fund that and the NHS will slowly recover.

You can't put a number on it until it's streamlined of management and social care is taken care of as ATM it is treating the symptoms not the cause.

Currently, bed blockers account for 13,000 beds. And at an average cost of £400 per day, bed blockers are costing the NHS £5.2m a day. £36m a week. Free up those beds and you get timely admissions into A&E, which frees up ambulances. It also frees up beds for elective surgery admissions, e.g. hip operations. And if you want to be mercenary about it, the quicker people are in and out of hospitals, the quicker they return to work, those that are in work of course. It’s a win-win all round.

 

[PJ87]

I thought you said closing down Westminster would cover it?

Not sure actually what you want. With respect you asked for a serious answer and I gave you it. How I'd fund it.

Can't go much further without entering into politics

So there we go.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Politics has already been entered
Infraction issued
Thread closed