NHS and waiting times.

[road2ruin]

Even with extra money available to the NHS I very much doubt much of it will flood down to the ground level - expect a great deal to be swallowed up somewhere.

Still would like to see some sort of medical insurance scheme brought in

This is the major issue with the NHS. It would be a complete waste of time to give the NHS an extra £350m per day/week/month/year as, ultimately, it would be wasted and wouldn't get down to the people who need it. The issues are down to complete mismanagement and a bloated organisation that needs stripping back to the bare bones. I don't mean by reducing medical positions either. Approximately 50% of all staff in the NHS are not clinically trained and I read that there are 2 managers for every nurse. That's the issue. By giving them even more money will not improve the service it will just speed up the wastage.

I have friends who work in the admin side of the NHS and even they admit it's embarrassing. They work in teams that no one really knows what they're doing so they just plod along, waiting until 4:30pm and then leaving. One got so bored that she actually went to find a direct manager to see what the plans were for the department and was told that there wasn't really anyone there who was managing them so just to do the best they can. Another favourite is to actively seek out redundancy as it's almost certain that you'll be hired back within a month or so having had a decent payout.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This is the major issue with the NHS. It would be a complete waste of time to give the NHS an extra £350m per day/week/month/year as, ultimately, it would be wasted and wouldn't get down to the people who need it. The issues are down to complete mismanagement and a bloated organisation that needs stripping back to the bare bones. I don't mean by reducing medical positions either. Approximately 50% of all staff in the NHS are not clinically trained and I read that there are 2 managers for every nurse. That's the issue. By giving them even more money will not improve the service it will just speed up the wastage.

I have friends who work in the admin side of the NHS and even they admit it's embarrassing. They work in teams that no one really knows what they're doing so they just plod along, waiting until 4:30pm and then leaving. One got so bored that she actually went to find a direct manager to see what the plans were for the department and was told that there wasn't really anyone there who was managing them so just to do the best they can. Another favourite is to actively seek out redundancy as it's almost certain that you'll be hired back within a month or so having had a decent payout.

And yet from the nursing/clinical/medical side of things - the lack of joined up management and administration between teams as a patient goes through their treatment journey is usually what causes problems for patients. But the nursing/clinical/medical teams are not themselves free of responsibility for this. It seems to me that there is not effective governance and monitoring around the medical teams to ensure that these teams know what they must do - and that they do it..

It is very easy for the medical and clinical teams to cite 'workload' as an impediment to ensuring they meet governance requirements - and workload is certainly an issue - but if governance is not being pro-actively imposed and monitored by others, then the good work of the medical and clinical teams is undone by their own actions - or lack of them - on the governance side.

 

[Dellboy]

Got a problem with my ribs, very painful somedays, other days its fine, called Costochondritis.

Doctor has given me some strong pain killers but say I will need injections into the chest area, as many as 5-6 of them.

So he gave me a letter and number to call and make an appointment he also told me there could be a wait for the treatment.

Just got off the phone, 4:30 next Monday, could have had this Friday !!

Top service :thup:

On the down side, the lady did tell me the injections do hurt and no golf for 10 days

 

[DCB]

Had to take my wife to A&E late on Friday night after an accident in the house. Pitched up just on midnight and it was a busy place. 6 Nations weekend as well, so, some extra traffic from the supporters enjoying their Friday night out. I was amazed at how quickly they did triage and then prioritised things from there. We were out in little over two hours with xrays, wound cleaned and dressed and anti tetanus jab to boot.

What did amaze me was the number of people who really didn't need to be there and were subsequently discharged very quickly.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What did amaze me was the number of people who really didn't need to be there and were subsequently discharged very quickly.

Well done that hospital. More please.

 

[Kellfire]

I read that there are 2 managers for every nurse. That's the issue.

In 2014 the NHS employed 377,191 qualified nursing staff and 37,078 managers.

So your issue was in fact a steaming pile of you know what.

It's so tiresome when you read people who don't or haven't worked in the NHS bleating on about more clinicians and less admin/management side are needed. Quite frankly, you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

 

[road2ruin]

In 2014 the NHS employed 377,191 qualified nursing staff and 37,078 managers.

So your issue was in fact a steaming pile of you know what.

It's so tiresome when you read people who don't or haven't worked in the NHS bleating on about more clinicians and less admin/management side are needed. Quite frankly, you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

Maybe not with regards the x managers to the y medical staff however I do know people in the admin side and they all agree it's a joke.

 

[Kellfire]

Maybe not with regards the x managers to the y medical staff however I do know people in the admin side and they all agree it's a joke.

Maybe they work in a poorly run department/Trust, but the necessity for the admin stuff cannot be overstated especially in a time of intense financial pressure. Clinicians are NOT good at running services, they need dedicated staff to do this for them and given the sheer size of the NHS this means a lot of those staff.

 

[Crazyface]

Been there Rooter. My lad needed two lots to sort it out. Got there in the end.

Interesting what CF saw, I'm sure it mirrors a lot of experiences. Good practice and decent management is often what is needed and it is there already in many places. In other places it just needs a kick up the backside.

You betcha boots!!!!

PS If you want to see a hospital that works Salford Royal was excellent!
(Just for balance)

 

[Crazyface]

In 2014 the NHS employed 377,191 qualified nursing staff and 37,078 managers.

So your issue was in fact a steaming pile of you know what.

It's so tiresome when you read people who don't or haven't worked in the NHS bleating on about more clinicians and less admin/management side are needed. Quite frankly, you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

I went for a job last year at our local hospital and was directed to where my interview was. I ended up walking through the largest open plan office I have ever seen in my life!!!!!!!

 

[Kellfire]

I went for a job last year at our local hospital and was directed to where my interview was. I ended up walking through the largest open plan office I have ever seen in my life!!!!!!!

Your point being? Teams do a lot of interlinked work in the NHS, nature of the beast. It makes sense to have them working in an environment that promotes interaction. I work in an open plan office of 24 and it's essential for our communication.

 

[Nickrat]

They do sometimes run "clinics" at a certain time and see patients on a first come first served basis. I think the problem with this is that it never states that on your appointment letter which usually gives you a specific date and time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Maybe they work in a poorly run department/Trust, but the necessity for the admin stuff cannot be overstated especially in a time of intense financial pressure. Clinicians are NOT good at running services, they need dedicated staff to do this for them and given the sheer size of the NHS this means a lot of those staff.

...though I do perceive that some of the dedicated staff are not quite so...and in truth are probably not hard enough on the clinicians to ensure that they do what they are supposed to do - and support them doing it - not just criticise them when they don't.

I appreciate that it is probably difficult to do a quality assurance job on clinicians - and most probably especially consultants - but there is no gain without pain. In the face of significant 'push back' it's very easy to give up and say 'hell mend 'em' but that way just ends in tears (for the staff and the patients)

 

[Kellfire]

...though I do perceive that some of the dedicated staff are not quite so...and in truth are probably not hard enough on the clinicians to ensure that they do what they are supposed to do - and support them doing it - not just criticise them when they don't.

I appreciate that it is probably difficult to do a quality assurance job on clinicians - and most probably especially consultants - but there is no gain without pain. In the face of significant 'push back' it's very easy to give up and say 'hell mend 'em' but that way just ends in tears (for the staff and the patients)

In my experience, consultants are incredibly stubborn and often won't listen to anything but their peers or their business managers when it comes to guidance on how best to run clinics, document their work and so on. Part of my job is to engage with consultants and their director managers and it is finally starting to show some benefit for my department as they start to open their eyes to new thinking because of the tough financial situation. Previously, when money wasn't such an issue, they were even more insular.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They do sometimes run "clinics" at a certain time and see patients on a first come first served basis. I think the problem with this is that it never states that on your appointment letter which usually gives you a specific date and time.

Well - if folk would turn up on time for their appointments there would be no issue. But appointments booking teams know that that just isn't the case with our dear 'every more so' entitled and selfish society - a society in which too many think that the NHS should bend to their own individual needs - without consideration of the clinical teams and other patients,.

 

[Crazyface]

Wahey. I'll be there again in 4 hours. My dad's just been taken in. Woe betide the slacks this time!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In my experience, consultants are incredibly stubborn and often won't listen to anything but their peers or their business managers when it comes to guidance on how best to run clinics, document their work and so on. Part of my job is to engage with consultants and their director managers and it is finally starting to show some benefit for my department as they start to open their eyes to new thinking because of the tough financial situation. Previously, when money wasn't such an issue, they were even more insular.

Exactly. If the consultants give the lead, then the rest of the teams will likely follow - because the teams know that if the consultants can find the time and have the understanding of the importance (not just benefit) of doing it - then they all can.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Wahey. I'll be there again in 4 hours. My dad's just been taken in. Woe betide the slacks this time!

Aside from this thread, hope it isn't too serious

 

[Crazyface]

Thanks

Pneumonia, apparently. He's comfortable and getting better now he's on antibiotics. I had to have a word with the staff last night as he hadn't had his insulin injection that morning, despite the fact he'd informed them of it when he arrived there at 9am. The nurse I spoke to told me that she had chased the pharmacy and was waiting for his charts or summat and there was nothing else she could do. There was the usual gathering of around 6 staff around the desk. How I didn't explode I do not know. I said that there was, and she could pop down there and get them, as this was now 6 hours (I had pointed this out to the previous place he was in at 2pm and they hadn't been informed). "Shall I go and get it, as I assure you I will come back with it?". They despatched a lad to go and get it. They have no idea what it is to work in the real world. If I'd have said that to most of my previous bosses, they wouldn't have been very happy to say the least. I know lets just shrug shoulders and blame someone else. rather than get the job done!