NHS and waiting times.

[SocketRocket]

I'll repeat from a previous post as you must have missed it.

Why does £350m/week matter?

The Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings has openly admitted that Brexit would never have won without all the £350 million for the NHS lies:

Here's exactly what Cummings said:

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/

By the date of the referendum the £350 million sum had been debated infanitem and everyone knew it was a gross and not net figure, to keep going on that people didn't understand that is just wrong. It was not said that the money would all be spent on the NHS either, it was suggested we could use it to fund projects like the NHS so please can you stop using 'spin' 'to counter 'spin' please. It also amazes me how Remainers are always asking why we are not spending the money on the NHS now while anyone should understand that we are still paying it to the EU until we leave.

 

[Leftie]

By the date of the referendum the £350 million sum had been debated infanitem and everyone knew it was a gross and not net figure, to keep going on that people didn't understand that is just wrong. It was not said that the money would all be spent on the NHS either, it was suggested we could use it to fund projects like the NHS so please can you stop using 'spin' 'to counter 'spin' please. It also amazes me how Remainers are always asking why we are not spending the money on the NHS now while anyone should understand that we are still paying it to the EU until we leave.

Thank you SR. Exactly my point that SILH chose to ignore.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well the posters did say - let's give the £350mil a week to the NHS instead of the EU. Everyone admitted that it was a lie despite people claiming they didn't actually say it ( despite it being on a massive big red bus !!! )

 

[SocketRocket]

Well the posters did say - let's give the £350mil a week to the NHS instead of the EU. Everyone admitted that it was a lie despite people claiming they didn't actually say it ( despite it being on a massive big red bus !!! )

The posters said "lets fund our NHS instead" which isn't exactly saying "Lets give £350 Million to the NHS instead. I apreciate it can be a little misleading but that's what it said and I think everyone knew the true situation by the time they voted.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The posters said "lets fund our NHS instead" which isn't exactly saying "Lets give £350 Million to the NHS instead. I apreciate it can be a little misleading but that's what it said and I think everyone knew the true situation by the time they voted.

:rofl: :rofl:

Everyone knew what it was targeting and no everyone didn't know the true situation - it was a true lie and fabrication and people sucked it up and believed and there is no doubt that some people voted leave because of it - it doesn't matter now but at least have the conviction to admit it was a lie and complete fabrication.

 

[SocketRocket]

The predictions shown in the graph will only be borne out if immigration continues as forecast - and assuming the graph was generated late 2010(dotted line?) the growth predicted would be predicated upon the UK being in the EU. So the graph is only true about future worsening problems in the NHS being a result of population growth if immigration continues as it is.

But we know that immigration will be under control and so won't increase in this way - unless that is we require the current level of immigration. But even if nett immigration were to be zero from today - the state of the NHS today is as it is - bust - and needs a lot of money to fix it. I guess that's where the £350m/week will come in handy.

Never mind the predictions, the damage has already been done and population growth is already too high due to the birthrate of people born outside the UK. All the problems we are currently experiencing will be worse proportionally with population growth.

 

[MegaSteve]

:rofl: :rofl:

Everyone knew what it was targeting and no everyone didn't know the true situation - it was a true lie and fabrication and people sucked it up and believed and there is no doubt that some people voted leave because of it - it doesn't matter now but at least have the conviction to admit it was a lie and complete fabrication.

I rather suspect the vast majority had decided which way to vote long before any campaigning had started... Believe this is borne out by how few appear to have changed their minds since the vote...

 

[SocketRocket]

:rofl: :rofl:

Everyone knew what it was targeting and no everyone didn't know the true situation - it was a true lie and fabrication and people sucked it up and believed and there is no doubt that some people voted leave because of it - it doesn't matter now but at least have the conviction to admit it was a lie and complete fabrication.

Oh dear! Oh deary me. you are being nasty and rude to me now, I'm going to get all Mardy and distressed

Everyone did understand the situation as it had been on every News report, Political Debate, News Paper headline, Political Debate and internet discussion for months. You really do talk some tosh at times . Oh and:

:rofl:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh dear! Oh deary me. you are being nasty and rude to me now, I'm going to get all Mardy and distressed

Everyone did understand the situation as it had been on every News report, Political Debate, News Paper headline, Political Debate and internet discussion for months. You really do talk some tosh at times . Oh and:

:rofl:

Oh well at least Farage had the guts to admit it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...ion-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/amp/

Oh and millions that voted didn't bother to watch political debates and the papers the emblazoned the headlines about the £350mil had them right up to the day

It's extremely false to suggest "everyone understand the situation" - because they clearly didn't

 

[Deleted member 18588]

It's extremely false to suggest "everyone understand the situation" - because they clearly didn't

This is extremely presumptuous.

You have no idea if people on either side of the argument understood the situation.

On the Remain side how many knew the truth of Osborne's claim that every family would be, I believe, £4100 worse off. I don't know any more than you do.

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh well at least Farage had the guts to admit it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...ion-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/amp/

Oh and millions that voted didn't bother to watch political debates and the papers the emblazoned the headlines about the £350mil had them right up to the day

It's extremely false to suggest "everyone understand the situation" - because they clearly didn't

Did you ask them all?

Oh and! :rofl:

 

[Old Skier]

Article 50 part 20.

The man backs out of one thread and then gets everyone talking about it on another thread.

You can't make it up.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Did you ask them all?

Oh and! :rofl:

Did you ask them all when you stated that "Everyone did understand the situation"

When you have been on the news after the vote was announced saying they didn't really knownwhat they voted for and the consequences then I reckon my statement that everyone "didnt understand" the situation and that's clear certainly holds a lot more weight than yours

Unless you have something to back up "everyone did understand the situation" statement.

I think it's clear to see why SILH and Delc have started posting why they do when they attempt to engage in any sort of conversation with you.

 

[Old Skier]

Did you ask them all when you stated that "Everyone did understand the situation"

When you have been on the news after the vote was announced saying they didn't really what they vote and the consequences then I reckon my statement that everyone "didnt understand" the situation and that's clear certainly holds a lot more weight than yours

Unless you have something to back up "everyone did understand the situation" statement.

I think it's clear to see why SILH and Delc have started posting why they do when they attempt to engage in any sort of conversation with you.

You wrote millions now it's a couple questioned on the news, did they have anything to say on NHS waiting times.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is extremely presumptuous.

You have no idea if people on either side of the argument understood the situation.

On the Remain side how many knew the truth of Osborne's claim that every family would be, I believe, £4100 worse off. I don't know any more than you do.

Anymore presumptuous than the statements from SR ?

I have no about any £4100 worse off? I'm guessing I missed that bus or slogan.

You are right we don't know anymore than the next person

So it's not right when some suggest that everyone knew the situation and that everyone had already made their mind up - in some way attempt to justify the clear blatant false promise and lie of the £350mil

Even if some on here won't admit it - at least Farage has the fibre to admit it was false

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You wrote millions now it's a couple questioned on the news, did they have anything to say on NHS waiting times.

I wrote millions didn't watch the political debates - 30 plus million voted in the Referendum- nowhere near that watched the debates. Maybe read what I wrote a bit more carefully

 

[Old Skier]

I wrote millions didn't watch the political debates - 30 plus million voted in the Referendum- nowhere near that watched the debates. Maybe read what I wrote a bit more carefully

And I'm sure the millions who voted remain didn't follow any debates on the matter so it seems there were people who voted on both sides that didn't have a clue what was going on.

There might however, been a few from both sides who were/are interested enough to follow the debate.

Or or are you inferring that because some or millions (don't have proof of either) of leavers didn't follow the debate so hadn't a clue and should never have voted.

 

[SocketRocket]

Anymore presumptuous than the statements from SR ?

I have no about any £4100 worse off? I'm guessing I missed that bus or slogan.

You are right we don't know anymore than the next person

So it's not right when some suggest that everyone knew the situation and that everyone had already made their mind up - in some way attempt to justify the clear blatant false promise and lie of the £350mil

Even if some on here won't admit it - at least Farage has the fibre to admit it was false

And who said it wasn't false? There you go throwing about false accusations again. I stated clearly it was a gross and not a net figure.

My point to you was that the slogan didnt say the money would be all given to the NHS, I believe I am correct in saying that unless you can point to some clear evidence otherwise.

 

[SocketRocket]

I wrote millions didn't watch the political debates - 30 plus million voted in the Referendum- nowhere near that watched the debates. Maybe read what I wrote a bit more carefully

I ask you again. Have you asked them all?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Anymore presumptuous than the statements from SR ?

I have no about any £4100 worse off? I'm guessing I missed that bus or slogan.

You are right we don't know anymore than the next person

So it's not right when some suggest that everyone knew the situation and that everyone had already made their mind up - in some way attempt to justify the clear blatant false promise and lie of the £350mil

Even if some on here won't admit it - at least Farage has the fibre to admit it was false

But there was no promise.

There could not be as the statement was made by the Leave campaign, which was no more than that, a campaign. Not a political party or government and, thus, not in a position to dictate any future Government spending.

And Osborne's claim that every family would be £4300 pa worse off was widely reported at the time and did nothing to help those of us that were active Remain supporters as we were asked to substantiate.