NHS and waiting times.

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Swingit - You are also using a very specific example, a specific clinic. The majority of us going to hospital and being left waiting are not in life or death situations where delays can be attributed to situations that you have described.

Your wife has a tough job, I am not having a go at her.

I know that you are not. No probs.

And I know things are not the same everywhere - and she knows it. But even in her unit she says how dreadful the communication between the different departments and teams can be. But her worry is that that has very little if anything to do with the clinical and medical teams - it is the admin and management of the processes that make information flow between the teams and the management coordination and staffing of the teams.

And what is happening? The clinical and medical staff are breaking under the strain of trying to make things work - despite admin and management. And their weariness, frustration and stress is what is driving so many out of these professions. And many like my wife (and her consultant colleagues) who can retire at 55 and others at 60 are doing so - getting out. And a lot of that very experienced nursing and doctors - who started in the mid-late 1970s - are going out of the door in the next 5 years - as we hear of dramatic falls in UK nurses entering training and significant constraints going to be applied to nurses from the EU and overseas as we leave the EU.

 

[SocketRocket]

Never mind the whatabootery, this graph shown the underlying problem in England and how it's going to get a lot worse.

View attachment 21903

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The NHS is broke and broken. Many inside it can see it, and many can see that management is part of the problem in terms of worthless jobs and lack of change. No money, no direction and it'll only get worse

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Health Tourism vs Brexit Promise

£500m/year vs £350m/day

Lots of noise, anger and publicity for the former. Amendment to Brexit bill proposed by Chuka Ummuna to look at how the £350m/day released by leaving the EU can be used to support the NHS fails.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...amendment-to-eu-withdrawal-bill-a7570336.html

Why might this matter?

The Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings has openly admitted that Brexit would never have won without all the £350 million for the NHS lies:

Here's exactly what Cummings said:

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Maybe a trifle pedantic but the £350m figure was per week not per day.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

GP practice in Dorset with a 4 week appointment time lag have introduced a £145 fee for a same day 20 minute consultation.
Is that not an incentive for the practice to keep offering a 4 week delay?
Would you pay?

 

[jdpjamesp]

had to go to hospital for a scan this morning. appointment was 9.30 so turned up 5 mins early.

got shown where to sit down by the receptionist. waiting half an hour, then the Radiographer turns up at 10am. by this time there 6 people sat there. so asked what the hold up was as no one went in before me.

"we don't start till 10"

what the point in starting appointments at 9.30 then?

its little surprise the NHS is in crises with waiting times

I had an accident with my eye a few years back. I worked over an hour's train journey away from the hospital so would always ask for the first appointment of the day to see the ophthalmologist. The number of times I'd be sitting there for an hour before he came sauntering in with a large half-drunk cup of tea, joking with the nurses. Made me so angry. And as soon as you complain at the reception desk they don't care, and indicate to the abusive behaviour warning on the wall. And then I'd get it in the neck at work because I wasn't turning up until lunch time. Ridiculous.

 

[jdpjamesp]

When i broke it in the game, i was taken by ambulance to Harlow General, got to the hosp about 1pm. had it looked at by a Doc, then was told i'd be taken to have it Xrayed. sat i a corridor till 9m until a porter came and got me and took me to Xray dept. where the Radiographer said, "you've been playing Rugby late" not really i replied Ive been here since 1pm.. he was a little embarrassed and said that's strange we hav't seen anyone since 4pm, so i don't know why they didn't bring you straight here.

if i'd known is was simply waiting for a porter, i could have just dragged myself down there.

I was in Dublin this week on business. Taxi driver had the radio on. They've got a similar crisis over there. They were talking to someone from the Macedonian health service. Apparently their service was about a week from collapse and they were desperate to get a solution so they tried something different. They brought in a lawyer, not a clinician, to run the gaff. First thing he did was to open up the various diaries, so radiology, surgery, physio etc to GPs. You went to your GP, who could specify what was needed in the computer, it then found a slot at the hospital where you could get all things seen to consecutively. Waiting times were slashed instantly and spare capacity was exposed to the tune of something like 30% I believe.

 

[chrisd]

Maybe a trifle pedantic but the £350m figure was per week not per day.

Don't want to be even more pedantic but it wont be available until we stop sending huge bundles of cash to the EU

 

[Foxholer]

Never mind the whatabootery, this graph shown the underlying problem in England and how it's going to get a lot worse.

View attachment 21903

Does it?

I believe there needs to be a bit more to it than you've shown!!

As it is, it's only some numbers on X and Y co-ordinates and a squiggly line!!!

Presumably, the expanded description would actually show what it means!

Oh and @Patrick....You are talking about the NHS in Scotland! By all reports, it's actually worse in England! Though getting folk to turn up early so that they can be seen on time could well be a cultural/local quirk! I may have simply been luck, but the several dealings I've had with the NHS (both personal and familial), both in A&E and with after-care, have been quite satisfactorily 'professional' , both from an administrative and clinical point-of-view! My only issue was with end phase of my late FiL's Cancer - where the lack of any information/prognosis/expectation was extremely frustrating, if slightly understandable.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Oh and @Patrick....You are talking about the NHS in Scotland! By all reports, it's actually worse in England! Though getting folk to turn up early so that they can be seen on time could well be a cultural/local quirk! I may have simply been luck, but the several dealings I've had with the NHS (both personal and familial), both in A&E and with after-care, have been quite satisfactorily 'professional' , both from an administrative and clinical point-of-view! My only issue was with end phase of my late FiL's Cancer - where the lack of any information/prognosis/expectation was extremely frustrating, if slightly understandable.

NHS Scotland is deemed to be the 'least worse' of the UK areas. {have you been listening to the News Where You Are ]
Seemingly it does 'joined up thinking' better that the other three.
My wife has just completed 6 months of cancer care including two operations.
Her treatment has been superb and the staff wonderful.

When she was having radiotherapy she was told to arrive at 8.15am. We were surprised that it was the same time as the other six patients.
They had to be checked in and examined by the nurse and treatment started at 9am. As we were first we had finished by 9.20.
Made sure we were first in each day so nae bother.
Whilst waiting I learned that one patient would be late due to road conditions [snow] on her 70 mile journey, another did not turn up for her appointment and a third patient's VRS lift failed to turn up, making her an hour late.

Somehow I got the feeling that this was normal and the unit well run.

 

[MegaSteve]

NHS Scotland is deemed to be the 'least worse' of the UK areas. {have you been listening to the News Where You Are ]
Seemingly it does 'joined up thinking' better that the other three.
My wife has just completed 6 months of cancer care including two operations.
Her treatment has been superb and the staff wonderful.

Ditto for my good lady wife here in the hard pressed much maligned London area...

We couldn't be happier with all the support [and love] we've received from all the NHS staff we've met over the last year or so...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Maybe a trifle pedantic but the £350m figure was per week not per day.

No - not pedantic - correct to correct me...facts are important.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don't want to be even more pedantic but it wont be available until we stop sending huge bundles of cash to the EU

I guess this is why Chuka Umunna wanted it included as an amendment to the Art50 bill - force the government to consider how the £350m/week (thanks @MM) savings will be spent on the NHS.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Never mind the whatabootery, this graph shown the underlying problem in England and how it's going to get a lot worse.

View attachment 21903

The predictions shown in the graph will only be borne out if immigration continues as forecast - and assuming the graph was generated late 2010(dotted line?) the growth predicted would be predicated upon the UK being in the EU. So the graph is only true about future worsening problems in the NHS being a result of population growth if immigration continues as it is.

But we know that immigration will be under control and so won't increase in this way - unless that is we require the current level of immigration. But even if nett immigration were to be zero from today - the state of the NHS today is as it is - bust - and needs a lot of money to fix it. I guess that's where the £350m/week will come in handy.

 

[Leftie]

the state of the NHS today is as it is - bust - and needs a lot of money to fix it. I guess that's where the £350m/week will come in handy.

You really pushing any credibility you may have had to the limit mate. You know as well as most that the messages on the side of the bus did not say anything about spending £350m a week on the NHS. If you mis-read it, then that's your problem. There were clearly two messages - albeit maybe a tad misleading. 1) We send £350m a week to the EU. Generally not disputed (ignores any rebate). 2) Let's fund the NHS. An admirable objective. Nowhere have I seen the leavers say that all, or any, of that money will be spent on the NHS - although it would of course be most welcome.

 

[Leftie]

And yes, I do have a vested interest in the waiting time fiasco for general surgery. HID had a fairly urgent op at the end of October with a follow up op to follow. We are still waiting for a date for this and the latest info from "admissions" is maybe late March or sometime in April.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I guess this is why Chuka Umunna wanted it included as an amendment to the Art50 bill - force the government to consider how the £350m/week (thanks @MM) savings will be spent on the NHS.

But why should the Government be held to account for a statement they did not make?

That suggestion that extra funds could available to the NHS was made by the Leave campaign and it is not the Government's responsibility to fulfil any claims that may or may not have been made.

The duty of the Gov't is to now put into practice the decision made by the electorate.

After all the official Gov't line at the referendum was to Remain.

Mr Umuna's motion is, like so much surrounding both Brexit and the NHS, just political grandstanding.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You really pushing any credibility you may have had to the limit mate. You know as well as most that the messages on the side of the bus did not say anything about spending £350m a week on the NHS. If you mis-read it, then that's your problem. There were clearly two messages - albeit maybe a tad misleading. 1) We send £350m a week to the EU. Generally not disputed (ignores any rebate). 2) Let's fund the NHS. An admirable objective. Nowhere have I seen the leavers say that all, or any, of that money will be spent on the NHS - although it would of course be most welcome.

I'll repeat from a previous post as you must have missed it.

Why does £350m/week matter?

The Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings has openly admitted that Brexit would never have won without all the £350 million for the NHS lies:

Here's exactly what Cummings said:

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I don't know about appointment waiting times, all I knwo is my youngest suffers with Crohns desease, and had to go to the hossy yesterday morning. They kept her in all day, night and just being let go now. Yes she had a CT scan, but the gasto doctor only came round 4:30 pm today.....a full 31.5 hours after being told they would need to see her. How the heck is that efficient use of a hospital bed?