NHS and waiting times.

[Deleted member 15344]

And I'm sure the millions who voted remain didn't follow any debates on the matter so it seems there were people who voted on both sides that didn't have a clue what was going on.

There might however, been a few from both sides who were/are interested enough to follow the debate.

Or or are you inferring that because some or millions (don't have proof of either) of leavers didn't follow the debate so hadn't a clue and should never have voted.

I wasn't inferring anything -

Someone claimed that "everyone knew the situation" and used the political debates as some proof of that when ite quite clearly a false presumptious statement

People will have been sucked in by the claims of £350 mil a week to the NHS when it was clearly a lie

Right now imo they should ensure that a decent amount that isn't paid to the EU when the UK is indeed paid to the NHS - it was a pledge emblazoned everywhere and when we leave the EU I expect the NHS to feel the monetary benefit of that

 

[Old Skier]

Right now imo they should ensure that a decent amount that isn't paid to the EU when the UK is indeed paid to the NHS - it was a pledge emblazoned everywhere and when we leave the EU I expect the NHS to feel the monetary benefit of that

And there is a fair chance that some of the money available will. I don't really understand why some seem to be inferring that none of the money available won't.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

By the date of the referendum the £350 million sum had been debated infanitem and everyone knew it was a gross and not net figure, to keep going on that people didn't understand that is just wrong. It was not said that the money would all be spent on the NHS either, it was suggested we could use it to fund projects like the NHS so please can you stop using 'spin' 'to counter 'spin' please. It also amazes me how Remainers are always asking why we are not spending the money on the NHS now while anyone should understand that we are still paying it to the EU until we leave.

They clearly didn't - that is the point the Leave Director is making. If you read his words it is very clear. Endlessly the Leave Campaign were asked to change the message. They were asked to make it very clear to the electorate EXACTLY what the £350m/week meant and if it WASN'T meant for the NHS they should have corrected the public's misunderstanding. . But they didn't - and Cumming makes it very clear exactly why they knew it was a winner.

It was a downright and blatant lie that Leave knew was a lie - but they stuck with it because they knew it could win them the vote, and they were right. Or are you suggesting that Cummings has got it wrong?

In any case - where's the £267/week for the NHS?

 

[Old Skier]

In any case - where's the £267/week for the NHS?

Not sure that amount would help much but knowing the way the NHS operate even that small amount will be wasted.

 

[SocketRocket]

I wasn't inferring anything -

Someone claimed that "everyone knew the situation" and used the political debates as some proof of that when ite quite clearly a false presumptious statement

People will have been sucked in by the claims of £350 mil a week to the NHS when it was clearly a lie

Right now imo they should ensure that a decent amount that isn't paid to the EU when the UK is indeed paid to the NHS - it was a pledge emblazoned everywhere and when we leave the EU I expect the NHS to feel the monetary benefit of that

You make the mistake that has been made by so many who didn't get their way in the referendum; that those that voted Leave didn't understand or were too stupid or ignorant to understand what the issue was about. That thinking is naive and elitist, the vast majority were quite clear on the issues for both sides of the debate.

 

[Old Skier]

Just had another look at the leave campaign bus and connot see where it says £350 million a week would go to the NHS.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You make the mistake that has been made by so many who didn't get their way in the referendum; that those that voted Leave didn't understand or were too stupid or ignorant to understand what the issue was about. That thinking is naive and elitist, the vast majority were quite clear on the issues for both sides of the debate.

How do you know that ?

I haven't called anyone too stupid so please do not twist anything being said to fit your agenda

 

[SocketRocket]

They clearly didn't - that is the point the Leave Director is making. If you read his words it is very clear. Endlessly the Leave Campaign were asked to change the message. They were asked to make it very clear to the electorate EXACTLY what the £350m/week meant and if it WASN'T meant for the NHS they should have corrected the public's misunderstanding. . But they didn't - and Cumming makes it very clear exactly why they knew it was a winner.

It was a downright and blatant lie that Leave knew was a lie - but they stuck with it because they knew it could win them the vote, and they were right. Or are you suggesting that Cummings has got it wrong?

In any case - where's the £267/week for the NHS?

As pointed out you have the sum a little wrong. Regarding where it is, it's still being paid to the EU as our subscription to be in the club. Surely you know that?

 

[SocketRocket]

How do you know that ?

I haven't called anyone too stupid so please do not twist anything being said to fit your agenda

Because I dont consider the Public to be stupid and believe the vast majority knew exactly what they were voting for.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Why are we continuing to discuss this?

£267 million or £350m per week, it makes no difference. People are asking the Government to deliver on a "promise" they didn't make, why is that so hard to understand?

 

[ger147]

Is this not the NHS waiting times thread???

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because I dont consider the Public to be stupid and believe the vast majority knew exactly what they were voting for.

So you don't actually know then that the vast majority were quite clear on the issues then - and it's nothing to do with people's intelligence why they might not be clear - more down to the lies and twists and clear mess than both sides of the campaign were in.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Guys please

This has been done to death on other threads,

I know it is all interlinked, but can we get away from Brexit discussions on this thread and back to the NHS and waiting times

Thank you

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Is this not the NHS waiting times thread???

I was specifically referring to the debate that has developed regarding post-Brexit expenditure which is deflecting away from the original point on waiting times.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And there is a fair chance that some of the money available will. I don't really understand why some seem to be inferring that none of the money available won't.

Even with extra money available to the NHS I very much doubt much of it will flood down to the ground level - expect a great deal to be swallowed up somewhere.

Still would like to see some sort of medical insurance scheme brought in

 

[Old Skier]

Even with extra money available to the NHS I very much doubt much of it will flood down to the ground level - expect a great deal to be swallowed up somewhere.

Still would like to see some sort of medical insurance scheme brought in

Not a fan. As someone who is a member of the zipper club and suffered a major back accident it would cost a fortune for me judging on the cost of holiday insurance. How would you deal with pre existing conditions. There is a strong case for more money but like most public sector organisations it would under the present scheme be a massive waste of money. The place is riddled with poor management at all disciplines and the fact it was devolved, like politics, it has ended up costing huge amounts in wage and admin costs.

I remember when they got rid of the Women's sections of the armed forces, there was an automatic saving in wages as they no longer need a separate top tear of management and senior officers.

If they did the same and got politics and the NHS back under one umbrella there would be massive savings.

 

[Crazyface]

BUMP

and organisation. Shocking. My wife had to go to A+E for a scan after visiting the docs yesterday morning. The Doc's rang ahead and sent a note. We report to A+E. No one knew a thing about it. It was rammed too. Not a good start. Thing is this has been done to death so I won't add but you know we watched all the bad bits right in front of our eyes for 4 hours happen in AAU. OMG it's a disgrace!. BUT. Then clip[ clop clip clop down the corridor came SUPER DOC!!!!! Within 30 minutes the staff had been scattered throughout the department and patients began to leave!!!! I overheard him speaking to the scan dept at 5pm and he basically took no poo from them, "well that's a problem for you and XYX Thank you!" I said to the wife "I think that was about you, and judging by what he said and how he said it you'll be sorted in no more than 10 minutes" "how do you know?" "If I got a call like that I'd be here in 10 minutes" and sure enough, whooosh the wife was whisked away for her scan. This bloke was awesome. He turned a mess of a department around in 1 hour. Everyone was working and sorting patients. He questioned everything that had been done and was to be done and got the sludge moving. He should be be in every department in every hospital in every country. We were out in 1 hour! See it can be done. It was pityfull to watch until this unflappable rock of a man appeared. I wish I'd got his name now. Oh and one other thing the girl on the admin desk was awesome too. The others were a disgrace.

 

[Kellfire]

BUMP

and organisation. Shocking. My wife had to go to A+E for a scan after visiting the docs yesterday morning. The Doc's rang ahead and sent a note. We report to A+E. No one knew a thing about it. It was rammed too. Not a good start. Thing is this has been done to death so I won't add but you know we watched all the bad bits right in front of our eyes for 4 hours happen in AAU. OMG it's a disgrace!. BUT. Then clip[ clop clip clop down the corridor came SUPER DOC!!!!! Within 30 minutes the staff had been scattered throughout the department and patients began to leave!!!! I overheard him speaking to the scan dept at 5pm and he basically took no poo from them, "well that's a problem for you and XYX Thank you!" I said to the wife "I think that was about you, and judging by what he said and how he said it you'll be sorted in no more than 10 minutes" "how do you know?" "If I got a call like that I'd be here in 10 minutes" and sure enough, whooosh the wife was whisked away for her scan. This bloke was awesome. He turned a mess of a department around in 1 hour. Everyone was working and sorting patients. He questioned everything that had been done and was to be done and got the sludge moving. He should be be in every department in every hospital in every country. We were out in 1 hour! See it can be done. It was pityfull to watch until this unflappable rock of a man appeared. I wish I'd got his name now. Oh and one other thing the girl on the admin desk was awesome too. The others were a disgrace.

I wonder how many risks were taken in the accuracy of triaging or properly examining patients to allow this remarkable speed up of services?

 

[Rooter]

Well i just got back from the hospital, my 4 year old has glue ear. We had a full hearing test, met and talked to the consultant, discussed the operation she is going to have (grommets again) and we should get a date for within 6 weeks. All of that we were in and out in 45 minutes.

You will not hear me complain about the NHS.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Been there Rooter. My lad needed two lots to sort it out. Got there in the end.

Interesting what CF saw, I'm sure it mirrors a lot of experiences. Good practice and decent management is often what is needed and it is there already in many places. In other places it just needs a kick up the backside.