HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Looks like some interesting progress and will be keen to see how this develops once you go to the course. Good to see a range that is happy to accommodate too
My 8 hours with James
- Thread starter pokerjoke
- Start date
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I'll soon put a stop to that as the range manager is my next door neighbour :rofl:
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Sorry is it me, why would an amateur golf want to travel so far for a golf lesson
What are you confused about?
Yosser
Assistant Pro
I'm curious why you are trying to hit a fade. Is the intention that your stock shot will be a controlled fade?
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Your clubface already points left, your shoulders already point left.... but your feet point right.... effectively your upper body is twisted at address, opening your stance (to the red line) will put all your lines 'in alignment' then you won't swing steep left across your toes.
The yellow line is the SHAFT PLANE.... when we swing a club we swing it up from the shaft plane to our SHOULDER PLANE which is the red line (because we swing the club up over our shoulder not around our waist).
The blue dot is where your hands should be at P2
From P2 your hands should swing more UP and not around behind you, so you need to follow the blue line with your hands whilst you make a 90 degree shoulder turn. This will put the club on (or closer to) the red line.
On the downswing the hands go back down the blue line (or just under it) so that we can return the club as best we can to the position it was in at address... on the yellow line. At the moment as your OTT your hands (and club) are nowhere near where they were at address.
The yellow line is the SHAFT PLANE.... when we swing a club we swing it up from the shaft plane to our SHOULDER PLANE which is the red line (because we swing the club up over our shoulder not around our waist).
The blue dot is where your hands should be at P2
From P2 your hands should swing more UP and not around behind you, so you need to follow the blue line with your hands whilst you make a 90 degree shoulder turn. This will put the club on (or closer to) the red line.
On the downswing the hands go back down the blue line (or just under it) so that we can return the club as best we can to the position it was in at address... on the yellow line. At the moment as your OTT your hands (and club) are nowhere near where they were at address.
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Finally how I see your swing.... and the things you need to 'be aware' of....
You have a strong grip, very strong in fact, but you're hitting a FADE with it, that means you are holding off any 'roll' of your hands and keeping the face OPEN to the path... which isn't bad.
You've subsequently got your alignments all messed up so much so that your upper body is twisted to your feet and as a result you've developed a very OTT swing and a very leftwards path... which actually suits your strong grip..(Pro's pretty much all hit a fade with a held off release) but you've over done your path because of the MYTH that you have to stand square.
Seeing as you've taught yourself not to 'roll' the face it means that you will need to change your entire path, clubface alignment, set up, aim, feet and shoulder twist, and learn a new release in order to play a draw comfortably - it would be a serious relearning of everything you are currently doing and likely you won't be shooting level par again in a hurry.
In order to play a fade you only need to keep doing what you're doing..... but we want to REDUCE just how much you are overdoing it so that you swing a little more down the line of the ball rather than cutting across it so much.
Things to bear in mind:
Make SURE you are lined up properly - club face where you want the ball to start, path more left, stand square to the path, make sure the ball isn't suddenly off your back foot now!!!
Make sure your shoulders are square to your feet (not open or closed)
Head behind the ball.
Left hip a little towards target (see-saw motion) weight 50/50
Wider stance with driver.
Get the P2 position learnt (don't swing flat and to the inside!)
Swing the hands more UP the blue line
Try to return the club closer to the position it was at address (down the yellow line)
As and when try to soften your grip... draw an arrow on your hands if you have to!!
Thought you did pretty well.... and hit some nice shots.
Get some video!! :thup:
You have a strong grip, very strong in fact, but you're hitting a FADE with it, that means you are holding off any 'roll' of your hands and keeping the face OPEN to the path... which isn't bad.
You've subsequently got your alignments all messed up so much so that your upper body is twisted to your feet and as a result you've developed a very OTT swing and a very leftwards path... which actually suits your strong grip..(Pro's pretty much all hit a fade with a held off release) but you've over done your path because of the MYTH that you have to stand square.
Seeing as you've taught yourself not to 'roll' the face it means that you will need to change your entire path, clubface alignment, set up, aim, feet and shoulder twist, and learn a new release in order to play a draw comfortably - it would be a serious relearning of everything you are currently doing and likely you won't be shooting level par again in a hurry.
In order to play a fade you only need to keep doing what you're doing..... but we want to REDUCE just how much you are overdoing it so that you swing a little more down the line of the ball rather than cutting across it so much.
Things to bear in mind:
Make SURE you are lined up properly - club face where you want the ball to start, path more left, stand square to the path, make sure the ball isn't suddenly off your back foot now!!!
Make sure your shoulders are square to your feet (not open or closed)
Head behind the ball.
Left hip a little towards target (see-saw motion) weight 50/50
Wider stance with driver.
Get the P2 position learnt (don't swing flat and to the inside!)
Swing the hands more UP the blue line
Try to return the club closer to the position it was at address (down the yellow line)
As and when try to soften your grip... draw an arrow on your hands if you have to!!
Thought you did pretty well.... and hit some nice shots.
Get some video!! :thup:
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JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
It's just too much to change in one go.
He has an OTT swing... it would need to be totally rebuilt before he could swing OUT to the right.
He spins his shoulders... it would need to be totally fixed
He holds off the release keeping the face open to the path..... would need to be fixed
His grip is uber strong.... if the path IS to the right he'd hook it off the planet.
He was already hitting a fade and has learned to knock it round quite well SOMEHOW
(LOL) It's just easier to soften/fix what he has now and make it better than rebuild practically his whole swing.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
sounds like an intresting swing. no videos? james this just wont do. we need some vids! :thup:
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yet again I take issue with the (not just yours) Impact = Returning to setup position malarkey! It's not the same position at all!
They are 2 different positions!
If they were the same, then setup would require the hands to be further away from the body than hanging relaxed (and establishing some lag)!
This vid shows a 'classic' swing and the hands on the downswing are certainly not in the same place as setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw
Part, if not most, of the reason is that the 'Double Pendulum' at setup has become pretty much a Single one at impact - so there has to be a difference in the way that looks.
Here' the first pic I found so not about this difference, but explain how the picture on the right is anything like 'returning to position at setup' picture on the left!
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&ei=nJFpUoerNo7K0AWPmoH4DA&ved=0CHsQ9QEwCw
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I said "as best we can"... in reference to the 'down-the-line' view.
Pokerjoke already has his hands forwards at impact as he's so steep.
We did discuss keeping them forwards as well, along with a train picking up some carriages
Impact with driver.... head back, hands forwards, club shaft (blurry)... but spot on
It doesn't get a lot better than this at impact.
Pokerjoke already has his hands forwards at impact as he's so steep.
We did discuss keeping them forwards as well, along with a train picking up some carriages
Impact with driver.... head back, hands forwards, club shaft (blurry)... but spot on
It doesn't get a lot better than this at impact.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
But my point is that they are 2 completely different positions!!!!
The only thing they have in common is....well, not much. The club-head is behind the ball (but at a slightly different angle) the club is in a similar relationship to the body at setup - hanging down - and the head is behind the ball. But that's about it! The feet are different, the shoulders are different, the legs are different, the posture is often different, the head is normally different, the balance is different, the hands and arms are different and the club position is different! So completel;y different - and setup position isn't even a position through wich the downswing travels!
So nothing 'as best we can' about it at all. In fact, it's entirely possible to return to setup position, but that would be a complete disaster!
So for heavens's sake stop talking about returning to setup position in any way shape or form and simply talk about proceeding to impact position!
Grrrrr!!!:sbox::rant:
Foxholer
Blackballed
Thats a weak attempt at a cop-out!
And just as wrong as the Face on view. The arms are different, the hands are different, the hips are different, the torso is different, the legs are different, the shoulders are different. How can you possibly think they are the same 'as best we can'!
The set-up position is exactly that - the set-up position. Balanced and ready to start the swing. The fact that the down-swing passes nearby is neither here nor there!
They are 2 completely different positions! :sbox::rant:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
17 seconds of learning Foxy.....2min 36secs to 2min 53secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIummw3kkfc
Argue with him, he's at least 1,200 times more qualified than me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIummw3kkfc
Argue with him, he's at least 1,200 times more qualified than me.
Foxholer
Blackballed
No need. He doesn't say anything about 'returning to set-up position'
And here's a vid of Glover with an iron. Low hands at impact maybe - sacrificing some power by having a shorter lever btw - but nothing like set-up position!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7qP5ki4DZY
Impact position (at 10 secs) is vastly different from set-up position (at 0) for all the reasons given earlier.
Different!, different!, different!
Are you trying to say that they are the same? Or even close to the same? Because that would be so wrong and just really really stupid and unbelievable!
Btw. I don't think anyone would pic Glover's swing as a model to emulate. Check his P3 position - certainly not your favoured 90* and a slingshot transition! But he's a Major Winner - as is Jim Furyk!
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Can I ask you JustOne are you a qualified PGA pro trained by the PGA, have you got your badge to qualify you to teach people how to play golf?
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Is this going to be another "Here we go....." moments?
http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?59757-Should-I-get-PGA-qualified
In terms of 'golf swing knowledge' do YOU even know what being PGA qualified even involves?
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No he hasn't, but I can't see why that should matter. I've had lessons from 7 different "PGA qualified" pros, and I can tell you 4 of them were pretty awful the other 3 were great. I've also had a couple of lessons from Roger Winchester who's an ex touring pro but not PGA qualified, he was also very good. Oh and I had a chipping lesson from Paddy Harrington.... I didn't ask him if he had a PGA teaching badge, bit I don't think he has.
Just look at some of the qualified teachers in schools, it doesn't mean their good. JO has a good understanding of the golf swing and if people seek his help and he's willing to help for free then that's to be applauded.
BTW he's not teaching them to play golf, just to swing a club.
I should think Winchester and Harrington were well qualified to teach people to play golf! Ive been round golf a long time, caddied for tour players, seniors tour winners,guys who have tee'd it up with Jack, worked in golf retail just about seen every side of the game and if theres one thing that this game produces is "wannabees", enough said.....No he hasn't, but I can't see why that should matter. I've had lessons from 7 different "PGA qualified" pros, and I can tell you 4 of them were pretty awful the other 3 were great. I've also had a couple of lessons from Roger Winchester who's an ex touring pro but not PGA qualified, he was also very good. Oh and I had a chipping lesson from Paddy Harrington.... I didn't ask him if he had a PGA teaching badge, bit I don't think he has.
Just look at some of the qualified teachers in schools, it doesn't mean their good. JO has a good understanding of the golf swing and if people seek his help and he's willing to help for free then that's to be applauded.
BTW he's not teaching them to play golf, just to swing a club.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
No he hasn't, but I can't see why that should matter. I've had lessons from 7 different "PGA qualified" pros, and I can tell you 4 of them were pretty awful the other 3 were great. I've also had a couple of lessons from Roger Winchester who's an ex touring pro but not PGA qualified, he was also very good. Oh and I had a chipping lesson from Paddy Harrington.... I didn't ask him if he had a PGA teaching badge, bit I don't think he has.
Just look at some of the qualified teachers in schools, it doesn't mean their good. JO has a good understanding of the golf swing and if people seek his help and he's willing to help for free then that's to be applauded.
BTW he's not teaching them to play golf, just to swing a club.
Well put sir. If people want to use JO to refine what they have, maybe with a view to future tuition with PGA pros, further self improvement or just to take them a step forward and more consistent with what they have at the end of the session then so what. Nothing ventured and all that and clearly JO has some good understanding of the swing. Easy for the doubters to sit behind the keyboard and be critical. Not so easy to volunteer to provide any one on one practical expertise and put their own understanding of the swing up for public consumption. I don't think this has become a PGA qualification argument, more a pop at the legitmacy of JO's ability to impart his knowledge. What is they say... those that can play, those that can't teach?
