MPs Brexit Options

[Deleted Member 1156]

I could tell you I'm a leading heart surgeon, and have a 25 year old blonde bombshell of a wife. Go on, ask me to prove it....

Brian, we've met and know each other. Handsome chap like you, gotta be telling the truth 😘

 

[Hobbit]

Brian, we've met and know each other. Handsome chap like you, gotta be telling the truth 😘

She's a bit older than 25... marginally. Still a size 8, and still at the gym for a few hours a week.


Whilst she's at the gym doing Keep Fit, I'm at the local cafe doing Keep Fat - full English.

 

[Old Skier]

I could tell you I'm a leading heart surgeon, and have a 25 year old blonde bombshell of a wife. Go on, ask me to prove it....

Not true without said photographic proof.

 

[SocketRocket]

This little poll goes to show we are as divided as ever. A new referendum or general election would not resolve anything if this trend was extrapolated.

 

[Hobbit]

This little poll goes to show we are as divided as ever. A new referendum or general election would not resolve anything if this trend was extrapolated.

It shows that there are a number of choices people would prefer but only 1, potentially 2 if you include option 7, would lead to no Brexit. Call it a compromise if you want but isn't a middle ground Brexit better than leaving 48% of those that voted out in the cold?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It shows that there are a number of choices people would prefer but only 1, potentially 2 if you include option 7, would lead to no Brexit. Call it a compromise if you want but isn't a middle ground Brexit better than leaving 48% of those that voted out in the cold?

Isn’t the best compromise to remain, because all those who voted to leave did so out of ..........., and because they are..........&............?
🤔😉🤣
and I say that in all seriousness!

 

[Fade and Die]

There are different levels of botheration and I’m perfectly happy to not bother searching out the links to evidence to things that couldn’t really be more in the public domain at present.

Does it make me crap at debating? Maybe but I’ve never said I’m debating. Why would I debate with people who are so obviously entrenched in their views that they’ll never change their mind? The evidence to show that financially remain is beneficial is plentiful and easily found. Yet people still claim it isn’t. So that’s where I end my interest in changing people’s minds and shift to wanting people to realise exactly what they’re saying so that when the inevitable happens, they can at least see their error and maybe be more open minded in future.

Funny thing is whenever I read any of your posts I can’t help thinking “This guy is a Mass debater” 🤔

 

[Fade and Die]

I'm curious, what choice is that?

The way I see it, there isn't actually a mandate for anything. Boiling down a whole variety of options into leave or remain created this mess.

Of those who voted remain, some wanted more integration (ideally a federal Europe), some wanted as we are, and some wanted to stay and reform.
Of those who voted leave, some wanted a full blown no deal cut all ties exit, and some wanted a much softer exit, with a whole spectrum of options in between.

To put it to an analogy, imagine you are with a group of mates, and start getting hungry. You have previously agreed that you are not going to split up and will do everything together. However, 4 of you want to stay in and have roast chicken, 3 of you want to stay in and have roast beef, 1 of you wants to stay in and have beans on toast, 4 of you want to go to a curry house, 3 of you want to go to the pizza place, and 2 of you wants McDonalds. So you decide to settle it with a vote "Eat in" or "Eat out". The eating out option wins 9-8, problem solved. Except it's not, because still no one agrees where you would go to eat, you could vote on the most popular individual option instead, but even then, no one option is more popular than any other, and any given option has more people against it than for it.

How to solve the mess, I don't know, but it's not as simple as some people would like to claim.

I just wish Brexit could be settled quickly so we don’t have to keep hearing these terrible convoluted analogies!

Imagine for instance you was a member of a golf club....😩😩😩

 

[SocketRocket]

Isn’t the best compromise to remain, because all those who voted to leave did so out of ..........., and because they are..........&............?
🤔😉🤣
and I say that in all seriousness!

If you do say it seriously then you opitimise whats gone wrong.

 

[SocketRocket]

It shows that there are a number of choices people would prefer but only 1, potentially 2 if you include option 7, would lead to no Brexit. Call it a compromise if you want but isn't a middle ground Brexit better than leaving 48% of those that voted out in the cold?

In that case Mays deal could be a consideration. Its not a choice though.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

If you do say it seriously then you opitimise whats gone wrong.

What’s gone wrong is all on parliament - they’re the only ones who can actually influence anything.
A bunch of knobs on a golf forum can come up with every idea under the sun , but can’t change what May, the cabinet, ERG, Labour or the minority parties, discuss, decide or deny.

 

[SocketRocket]

What’s gone wrong is all on parliament - they’re the only ones who can actually influence anything.
A bunch of knobs on a golf forum can come up with every idea under the sun , but can’t change what May, the cabinet, ERG, Labour or the minority parties, discuss, decide or deny.

Why are you (a knob) on here then. Are you saying the public , be it on a golf forum or wherever, shouldnt discuss the subject.

 

[backwoodsman]

So, I wonder what this thread adds to the previous Brexit thread(s). Dogmatic, entrenched views on both sides, and never the twain shall meet.

And therein lies the whole sorry two year mess...

 

[SocketRocket]

So, I wonder what this thread adds to the previous Brexit thread(s). Dogmatic, entrenched views on both sides, and never the twain shall meet.

And therein lies the whole sorry two year mess...

Is that all you have to add. If so maybe you should realise its not compulsory reading.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Is that all you have to add. If so maybe you should realise its not compulsory reading.

But what he says is so true and an exact summation of the situation.

 

[Dibby]

It shows that there are a number of choices people would prefer but only 1, potentially 2 if you include option 7, would lead to no Brexit. Call it a compromise if you want but isn't a middle ground Brexit better than leaving 48% of those that voted out in the cold?

I am not so sure about compromise. In my opinion, politicians should do what is best for the country, irrespective of its popularity. In theory, we choose a politician to represent us and make decisions on our behalf as we don't have time to study the nuances of every decision.
However, in practice, too many of them are self-serving careerists that I am not sure they can be trusted to do the right thing for the country, whatever it may be.

Regarding Brexit, the real mistake was taking something complex with many options, simplifying these into 2 choices and then putting it to the public, especially when there was no clear majority for either option. If politicians were honest and had the balls to stick to their convictions, we wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[Hobbit]

I am not so sure about compromise. In my opinion, politicians should do what is best for the country, irrespective of its popularity. In theory, we choose a politician to represent us and make decisions on our behalf as we don't have time to study the nuances of every decision.
However, in practice, too many of them are self-serving careerists that I am not sure they can be trusted to do the right thing for the country, whatever it may be.

Regarding Brexit, the real mistake was taking something complex with many options, simplifying these into 2 choices and then putting it to the public, especially when there was no clear majority for either option. If politicians were honest and had the balls to stick to their convictions, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Hindsight never made a mistake.

I think May's deal is BRINO. Its a compromise, and its Remain in everything but name. But it gives away too much control, hence its opposition.

As to the complexity of the issue and the vote that took place. Cameron made it very clear what Leave would be. Out of the Customs Union and out of the single market. The choice was remain or clean beak and negotiate a trade deal in isolation from the Remain/Leave issue. The government has tried to negotiate the leave in with a deal. And that's where its got ridiculous.

 

[Dibby]

Hindsight never made a mistake.

I think May's deal is BRINO. Its a compromise, and its Remain in everything but name. But it gives away too much control, hence its opposition.

As to the complexity of the issue and the vote that took place. Cameron made it very clear what Leave would be. Out of the Customs Union and out of the single market. The choice was remain or clean beak and negotiate a trade deal in isolation from the Remain/Leave issue. The government has tried to negotiate the leave in with a deal. And that's where its got ridiculous.

It's a pointless compromise if it really is BRINO then from a leave perspective, we are not really leaving, and from a remain perspective we are giving up the power to influence the rules we must follow. It;s a worst of both worlds option, rather than an acceptable compromise.

So someone campaigning for remain was clear about what leave meant. Can you see the problem with that before even looking any further? Do you think remain voters listened to Farages vision of remaining? If it was clear what leave meant before the vote, there would be no need for any negotiation or similar afterwards, because it would already be defined.

The fact is there was no clarity on either side, individuals may have claimed so, but there was no actual consensus as to what either side meant, Farage, Boris, Dannan all claimed leave meant different things. Remain was slightly clearer, as obviously with no immediate change there are less moving parts, but there were still factions that wanted different types of remain, with concessions, with reform to follow, with further integration, exactly as we are with no changes. To claim either side presented a 100% solid picture of what their preferred option meant, and what would happen next is a fallacy.

 

[ColchesterFC]

So, I wonder what this thread adds to the previous Brexit thread(s). Dogmatic, entrenched views on both sides, and never the twain shall meet.

And therein lies the whole sorry two year mess...

I started it solely to put up the poll on the options MPs would be voting on to see what people on here would vote for. Maybe a Mod could use their super power to turn off comments on this this thread and we can all carry on arguing on the main thread.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Why are you (a knob) on here then. Are you saying the public , be it on a golf forum or wherever, shouldnt discuss the subject.

Everyone has the right to discuss it. But to say that the problems we're facing are based on what anyone (other than the politicians themselves) says, is just wrong.

We can't change their views, because none of them will listen to us, as they are all too entrenched in their own bias'.
I could have emailed my MP (Pauline Latham) every day for the last 2 years to ask her to vote against brexit. But she won't, because as a member of the ERG, she is a brexiteer.
If someone in Broxtowe did the same to Anna Soubry, asking her to vote to leave she wouldn't, because she is very much pro-remain.

So to say that what someone puts on this forum, or shouts in the street, whether it was in jest, as in my case, or deadly serious, is the root cause of the current problems is patently wrong.

The vote happened, you won & we lost, your side campaigned better than ours, and it's now in the sovereign hands of our Parliament - we the people (on both sides of the vote) have had nothing to do with any of it, no matter how loudly any of us have shouted, since the final ballot paper was counted.