Membership cost increase

[D-S]

On the subject of waiting lists?
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of having to pay just to join the waiting list? As someone alluded to on here.

We did offer people to pay to be on the waiting list. The money was refundable against their joining fee when they got in. We also allowed them then to use the practice facilities and gave them a bar card which discounted drinks in the interim. This was to give us some certainty that they were not just on our list as well as many others and had some sort of a commitment and wouldn’t disappear the moment a vacancy arose. Proved very popular.
Just emailing people once a year saying “by the way you’re not in yet” doesn’t really help much for either party.

 

[Ian_George]

You're looking to be a *member*, it's a big difference, you're part of the club, you're part owner of the club

Only of those clubs where the 'part ownership' can be sold! Not many of those that I know of, but may be different in Bonnyland!

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Only of those clubs where the 'part ownership' can be sold! Not many of those that I know of, but may be different in Bonnyland!

Most clubs are members clubs, in fact proprietary clubs are very rare in Scotland. If you're a member it's your club.

 

[Ian_George]

Most clubs are members clubs, in fact proprietary clubs are very rare in Scotland. If you're a member it's your club.

But if you can't sell your 'part ownership', what's the benefit. In fact, how can you actually be a 'part owner'! All the clubs I've belonged to, including 2 in Scotland, have been 'my club', but I've never owned any part of them!

 

[Banchory Buddha]

But if you can't sell your 'part ownership', what's the benefit. In fact, how can you actually be a 'part owner'! All the clubs I've belonged to, including 2 in Scotland, have been 'my club', but I've never owned any part of them!

Albo is saying he's a "customer", he's not (unless it's proprietary), if you're a member, it's your club, all expenses of that club are ultimately paid from your pocket. The benefit is you can shapoe decisions in your club, you can help that club be better, you can volunteer when needed. It's YOUR club.

 

[Ian_George]

Albo is saying he's a "customer", he's not (unless it's proprietary), if you're a member, it's your club, all expenses of that club are ultimately paid from your pocket. The benefit is you can shapoe decisions in your club, you can help that club be better, you can volunteer when needed. It's YOUR club.

But not 'part owner' as I don't believe I can sell my portion! I know all the rest and much of it applies to a non-member too! Here's the 1st definition I found 'If you have ownership, you can possess, enjoy, sell, give away, bequeath, destroy, or sell an item of property'! So 'part ownership' means you can sell you can do that to or with your part! Basically, the assertion that someone who pays their sub is a 'part owner' is rubbish!

 

[Banchory Buddha]

But not 'part owner' as I don't believe I can sell my portion! I know all the rest and much of it applies to a non-member too! Here's the 1st definition I found 'If you have ownership, you can possess, enjoy, sell, give away, bequeath, destroy, or sell an item of property'! So 'part ownership' means you can sell you can do that to or with your part!

You are

 

[Albo]

Albo is saying he's a "customer", he's not (unless it's proprietary), if you're a member, it's your club, all expenses of that club are ultimately paid from your pocket. The benefit is you can shapoe decisions in your club, you can help that club be better, you can volunteer when needed. It's YOUR club.

I’m not though, in the example I mentioned, I am on the wait list and decide to no longer be on said wait list, and as they have not reached out to me in the years I’ve been on the wait list I’ve not bothered to tell them ima member somewhere else and no longer wish to be on the wait list.
Unless and until I join I am not a member, part owner or anything similar, I am a potential member, part owner or as I see myself at the time a potential customer, who, in light of being on a wait list for 3 years with no contact from the club in those 3 years, I’ve decided to join somewhere else and have treat the club with the same contempt as they did with me

 

[Ian_George]

You are

View attachment 45220

2nd def is distinctly different to 1st! And you still haven't answered my question that is fundamental to ownership! Can a member, who you claim to be a part-owner, sell their part of the club they own!

 

[Ian_George]

I’m not though, in the example I mentioned, I am on the wait list and decide to no longer be on said wait list, and as they have not reached out to me in the years I’ve been on the wait list I’ve not bothered to tell them ima member somewhere else and no longer wish to be on the wait list.
Unless and until I join I am not a member, part owner or anything similar, I am a potential member, part owner or as I see myself at the time a potential customer, who, in light of being on a wait list for 3 years with no contact from the club in those 3 years, I’ve decided to join somewhere else and have treat the club with the same contempt as they did with me

Your prerogative. But I think I'd have played the course and inquired about my position on the list during those 3 years!

 

[Slab]

If a club has 50 people on a waiting list with potential revenue of 50-100k (for example) wouldn't any club appoint someone to manage that list and nurture those people regularly to secure as much of that potential investment as possible

It'd be crazy not to

 

[Imurg]

I enquired about the 3 of us joining Ellesborough in the December.....went on the waiting list and were able to play the course 6 times between then and the new season (April)
Received an email in the February checking that we still wanted to join....reply sent
Got another email late February informing us of the amount and that as soon as we had paid we would become Full Members with unlimited playing rights.
Fees paid very early March and we got a month's free golf.....well, 3 weeks as the first lockdown arrived but you can't have everything.
Perfect communication.....just the way it should be.

 

[BubbaP]

A course I had on shortlist just before covid hit, went to a waiting list at the end of summer 2020, contacted me this week saying taking members again.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

2nd def is distinctly different to 1st! And you still haven't answered my question that is fundamental to ownership! Can a member, who you claim to be a part-owner, sell their part of the club they own!

Don't be ridiculous. You're just trolling now.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I’m not though, in the example I mentioned, I am on the wait list and decide to no longer be on said wait list, and as they have not reached out to me in the years I’ve been on the wait list I’ve not bothered to tell them ima member somewhere else and no longer wish to be on the wait list.
Unless and until I join I am not a member, part owner or anything similar, I am a potential member, part owner or as I see myself at the time a potential customer, who, in light of being on a wait list for 3 years with no contact from the club in those 3 years, I’ve decided to join somewhere else and have treat the club with the same contempt as they did with me

We're probably arguing 2 different points tbf.

I'd agree it's poor, very poor, communication, and as Imurg then shows, it can be done if the club is well run.

 

[doublebogey7]

2nd def is distinctly different to 1st! And you still haven't answered my question that is fundamental to ownership! Can a member, who you claim to be a part-owner, sell their part of the club they own!

This would seem to me to be an argument over semantics and sought of see where you are coming from. But answer me these two: I consider myself the part owner of my home, but I'm not free to sell without the permission of the other joint owner and the mortgage provider, am I part owner? if you don't have part ownership of a members golf club, who are the owners?

Regardless though if you are a member at a members club, the relationship isn't one of customer/supplier, which was the point being made originally.

 

[Albo]

This would seem to me to be an argument over semantics and sought of see where you are coming from. But answer me these two: I consider myself the part owner of my home, but I'm not free to sell without the permission of the other joint owner and the mortgage provider, am I part owner? if you don't have part ownership of a members golf club, who are the owners?

Regardless though if you are a member at a members club, the relationship isn't one of customer/supplier, which was the point being made originally.

The last bit of your post is where I don’t either agree or more likely understand.

I am a member of a golf club, I pay my subs each year and in return I get to play when I want / can on a course which is in )hopefully) decent condition. That’s it! Regardless of my owning part of the club, as discussed that ownership is for all intents and purposes, meaningless, my ownership is worth nothing to me, it won’t grow in value nor is it a saleable asset. With regards your house analogy above, you are likely a 2 or 3 way owner of that (other half and possibly bank via a mortgage), if you and you alone wanted to sell, you could force that through, may cost you your marriage in the process, but it can be done it is a tangible, saleable asset. A golf club membership isn’t, unless it’s something akin to Archerfield up here, where you buy a debenture, which is saleable.
I view my membership very much as a customer/supplier relationship. If the condition of the course isn’t good enough for what I’m paying I will have no hesitation about leaving. I feel no sense of ownership nor obligation to stay anywhere and really am failing to see why anyone would.
As I say it’s likely I’m missing something, won’t be the first nor last time that’s happened, but if someone can educate me on what it is I’m missing I’m all ears, as what’s been suggested doesn’t resonate with me

 

[IanM]

Being a PART owner has meaning unless you decide to attach no value or meaning to it. The Archerfield example is one version of membership value. If your club decided to fold and sell up, you'd be entitled to a share of the proceeds. There are some famous examples. Member owned clubs are not maximising profits, so can be more flexible around how they operate... you get a vote in how it operates. If you are in the minority and don't like, it, you have choices.

Proprietary clubs, you are a customer/punter that's it. If you don't like the way it operates, you have no say other than as "customer feedback."

In practice, it might make no difference, or it could be considerable. Depends on circumstances.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

The last bit of your post is where I don’t either agree or more likely understand.

I am a member of a golf club, I pay my subs each year and in return I get to play when I want / can on a course which is in )hopefully) decent condition. That’s it! Regardless of my owning part of the club, as discussed that ownership is for all intents and purposes, meaningless, my ownership is worth nothing to me, it won’t grow in value nor is it a saleable asset. With regards your house analogy above, you are likely a 2 or 3 way owner of that (other half and possibly bank via a mortgage), if you and you alone wanted to sell, you could force that through, may cost you your marriage in the process, but it can be done it is a tangible, saleable asset. A golf club membership isn’t, unless it’s something akin to Archerfield up here, where you buy a debenture, which is saleable.
I view my membership very much as a customer/supplier relationship. If the condition of the course isn’t good enough for what I’m paying I will have no hesitation about leaving. I feel no sense of ownership nor obligation to stay anywhere and really am failing to see why anyone would.
As I say it’s likely I’m missing something, won’t be the first nor last time that’s happened, but if someone can educate me on what it is I’m missing I’m all ears, as what’s been suggested doesn’t resonate with me

OK, I'll try a new angle regarding being a customer

You're a customer at M&S, or Aldi, or Arnold Clark. They've been busy lately, car park could do with a weed, would they send out an email to all their customers asking for some volunteers? No, because you're a customer. Would they ask you about what inventory they should stock? No, you're a customer.

Golf Club ~ You would get such an email, and you'd either go and help, or you wouldn't, but the club is something all members have a responsibility for, you can take part in the decisions of your club, or you let others do all the lifting, but the opportunity is there, because you've paid your membership fees

 

[GB72]

I think people view golf club membership in many different ways irrespective of the ownership model. Sadly not devoting your life to being a club person is another stick used to beat certain golfers with.

I will put my hand up and admit that a club membership to me meant little more to me than my gym membership. I enjoyed the course and met some decent acquaintances to play golf with and I chose that word carefully. At the clubs where membership was an option to me, the members were all nice people but I had little in common with them aside from golf and so never really classed them as friends and rarely met outside of playing golf. The clubhouse was to quiet and had a dress code and so did not suit me as a place for a beer and the social side was geared towards people looking for very different things to what I enjoy. Plus, I like to spend time with my wife and friends at weekends. It was a private members club but that made no difference to me,I was a consumer and when I felt I was not getting value I stopped being a consumer.

I know that to some, club memebership and the life around it is everything to some but there are people, me included, who see a golf club membership in the same way as a gym or any other club membership and nothing more. Now, one day I may find a club that changes that attitude but I have not found one yet.