Cost of green fees and membership

[The Lion]

I appreciate what you are saying.

As a club we are not rich, but have a 'healthy' surplus which is invested back into the club and course. The clubhouse whilst having character has required quite a lot of upkeep the last few years. The complete irrigation system was replaced over the winter and extended outwards from the greens. Provision has been made to include fairway watering at some points of the course.

At some stage holes 10,11 and 12 will have to be addressed following a long term issue with a caravan owner. This is a holding operation at present but MacKenzie and Ebert have drawn up plans which although looking fantastic, especially the proposed 12th would be a very significant expenditure.

I think the increased green fees and in fact members subs which have increased significantly since I joined in 2012 (still cheaper that my old course which is a bog standard parkland) is just the club ensuring there are no nasty suprises around the corner and not a greedy money grab.

The green fee at £65 (plenty of visitors play 36 holes) still represents fantastic value for a top 100 course.

Silloth as a club are proud of our course and the fact we are viewed as offering a great product to visitors at a relatively low cost .A descision to increase the visitor green fees is just reflecting the higher costs clubs face in the current economic climate.

Alan the secretary has been at Silloth since he was a junior member and sees his job as getting people to come and play the course. If they come once they will be return again, bring their mates and spread the word. Interesting we are seeing more members from the north east, Glasgow, Liverpool areas.

God knows what some courses are going to set green fees at when American visitors return....we certainly arn't going down that route, they pay the normal rate.

Also...I genuinely can’t believe there is an issue that a single caravan owner can have so much power over re-routing 3 entire holes? That’s crazy.

Would be great to have more info if you’ve got it though?

I really hope they don’t do it; Silloth is fine - no, great! - as it is, and there’s scarcely a single hole which needs changing in any way!

 

[Crazyface]

I agree with most of your points. And thanks for all the info; it is really interesting. I can’t wait to play at Silloth again myself; it was only the lockdowns which prevented visits last summer, after a great day there in March 2020, playing it for the first time.

As for the rich Americans, I think that even they have limits. Many top courses charging over £200 or €200 have been hiking fees up to £20 or €20 a year recently - a state of affairs that is even starting to stretch the common 50% or more locals’ green fees in Ireland or Scotland somewhat. This is now being replicated further down the scale, with 10%+ fee increases for the £50-100+ courses too (eg Brora hiked their GF from £95 to £125).

So ultimately, at this rate we’re barely 6-7 years away from £400 round tickets at many top clubs. Surely that’s getting too steep for these islands. The clamour is growing that’s for sure; there are so many complaints on socials now about high green fees - including here.

I’ve actually been saying for a long time that we need a UK & Ireland-wide county card. Question is, do the powers that be have the will to make it happen?

Excellent idea. Christ alive it's easy to do. We could just use our England Golf card. Job done.

 

[Zig]

Also...I genuinely can’t believe there is an issue that a single caravan owner can have so much power over re-routing 3 entire holes? That’s crazy.

Would be great to have more info if you’ve got it though?

I really hope they don’t do it; Silloth is fine - no, great! - as it is, and there’s scarcely a single hole which needs changing in any way!

From what I've heard, the three additions around the turn would make this already excellent course even better. And the dune land to the south is magnificent. If they need to charge visitors a little more to generate the capital then fair enough.

As for membership... I've looked a few times as full membership pretty much works out at country member prices everywhere else!! And the package is phenomenal! If only it was an hour closer!

 

[ForeRight]

I agree with most of your points. And thanks for all the info; it is really interesting. I can’t wait to play at Silloth again myself; it was only the lockdowns which prevented visits last summer, after a great day there in March 2020, playing it for the first time.

As for the rich Americans, I think that even they have limits. Many top courses charging over £200 or €200 have been hiking fees up to £20 or €20 a year recently - a state of affairs that is even starting to stretch the common 50% or more locals’ green fees in Ireland or Scotland somewhat. This is now being replicated further down the scale, with 10%+ fee increases for the £50-100+ courses too (eg Brora hiked their GF from £95 to £125).

So ultimately, at this rate we’re barely 6-7 years away from £400 round tickets at many top clubs. Surely that’s getting too steep for these islands. The clamour is growing that’s for sure; there are so many complaints on socials now about high green fees - including here.

I’ve actually been saying for a long time that we need a UK & Ireland-wide county card. Question is, do the powers that be have the will to make it happen?

It's not just about the powers that be to have the will. The clubs themselves also need to get on board. Not all clubs are on the county card scheme. Certainly upto 2019 St Enodoc wouldn't offer any county card discounts during their most busy times of the year. They didn't need to so why should they?

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Also...I genuinely can’t believe there is an issue that a single caravan owner can have so much power over re-routing 3 entire holes? That’s crazy.

Would be great to have more info if you’ve got it though?

I really hope they don’t do it; Silloth is fine - no, great! - as it is, and there’s scarcely a single hole which needs changing in any way!

The upsides of any re-routing would improve the 10th, the one weak hole on the course by moving the tee beyond the 9th green and move the green left keeping the dogleg but making the hole play crosswind with an OOB right. Maybe to be kind to the 10th, it could be best described as a taking a breather hole after getting beat up by 8 of the 1st 9 playing into the wind altough an errant tee shot is a double or worse just waiting for you....

11th would be a par 3 of around 200 yards to existing green, current hole has shifted the line of the tee shot further left over recent years and the hole is poorer for it.

12th would become a 400 yard plus par 4 hitting over what is the current 12th tee to a new green moved back and to the right of the existing green. From the drawings I have seen this is potentially a stunning hole.

I'm not sure what the current plan is, the drawings were originally on display a couple of years back and some discussions have taken place as well some alternative ideas which could be a bit of a compromise.

Club is hosting the Carris Trophy next year so that is obviously putting a stop to any mayor upgrade work at present but beyond that I'm not sure where this is going. Throw Covid into the mix as well and I suspect nothing will happen in the next 3 or 4 years.

 

[HampshireHog]

I think a lot of clubs just aren’t interested visitors hence the high green fees. The money is being made on societies and getting them spending on food and drink.

I’d get 16 weekend rounds at my place for the cost of my membership, so I know what represents value to me.

 

[davidy233]

I’d get 16 weekend rounds at my place for the cost of my membership, so I know what represents value to me.

6 summer rounds for me based on visitor's price and I'm in profit

 

[GB72]

I think a lot of clubs just aren’t interested visitors hence the high green fees. The money is being made on societies and getting them spending on food and drink.

I’d get 16 weekend rounds at my place for the cost of my membership, so I know what represents value to me.

I think that this is a fair point. Look at the cost of the green fee as not simply a reflection of the quality of the place that you are playing at but also a reflection of how much they want or need visitors. Many clubs near me did not allow weekend visitors before covid let alone after.

 

[IanM]

Always a calculation worth considering...

EG subs £1000 p.a. on a decent members course (in this part of the world) equates to about £20 a week.... hence one round a week, £20

We have some old geezers who are playing about 5 times a week....so the unit price is very reasonable.... I was working away and struggling to play once a week. Now I'm working fewer hours and doing them from home, my average since we reopened this Spring is nearer 2 or 3 rounds a week.

Just checked on our website and was shocked to see our summer green fee advertised as £65. I thought it was £40-45. But, we have a full membership and this price reflects the availability of starting times and the intention to limit visitors to members' guests.

 

[The Lion]

From what I've heard, the three additions around the turn would make this already excellent course even better. And the dune land to the south is magnificent. If they need to charge visitors a little more to generate the capital then fair enough.

As for membership... I've looked a few times as full membership pretty much works out at country member prices everywhere else!! And the package is phenomenal! If only it was an hour closer!

Interesting, thanks. I really hope they don’t hike green fees though - ultimately just to placate a nimby caravan owner. I don’t get that. Maybe because golfers tried to cut the corner of the 10th and keep landing in the caravan park? If so, surely the fool knew what they were getting into; it’s their fault really.

The upsides of any re-routing would improve the 10th, the one weak hole on the course by moving the tee beyond the 9th green and move the green left keeping the dogleg but making the hole play crosswind with an OOB right. Maybe to be kind to the 10th, it could be best described as a taking a breather hole after getting beat up by 8 of the 1st 9 playing into the wind altough an errant tee shot is a double or worse just waiting for you....

11th would be a par 3 of around 200 yards to existing green, current hole has shifted the line of the tee shot further left over recent years and the hole is poorer for it.

12th would become a 400 yard plus par 4 hitting over what is the current 12th tee to a new green moved back and to the right of the existing green. From the drawings I have seen this is potentially a stunning hole.

I'm not sure what the current plan is, the drawings were originally on display a couple of years back and some discussions have taken place as well some alternative ideas which could be a bit of a compromise.

Club is hosting the Carris Trophy next year so that is obviously putting a stop to any mayor upgrade work at present but beyond that I'm not sure where this is going. Throw Covid into the mix as well and I suspect nothing will happen in the next 3 or 4 years.

This is really informative. Thank you. I can’t quite work out the proposed layout though, however due to Covid it’s been a year, so that may be why!

 

[The Lion]

I think that this is a fair point. Look at the cost of the green fee as not simply a reflection of the quality of the place that you are playing at but also a reflection of how much they want or need visitors. Many clubs near me did not allow weekend visitors before covid let alone after.

There is this, but if they don’t want visitors, then surely they can just close to visitor bookings?

Instead I’d argue it’s just plain old greed; gouge people while you can, when the game is popular.

Always a calculation worth considering...

EG subs £1000 p.a. on a decent members course (in this part of the world) equates to about £20 a week.... hence one round a week, £20

We have some old geezers who are playing about 5 times a week....so the unit price is very reasonable.... I was working away and struggling to play once a week. Now I'm working fewer hours and doing them from home, my average since we reopened this Spring is nearer 2 or 3 rounds a week.

Just checked on our website and was shocked to see our summer green fee advertised as £65. I thought it was £40-45. But, we have a full membership and this price reflects the availability of starting times and the intention to limit visitors to members' guests.

Wow, that’s a pretty shocking rise isn’t it! Reminds me of Saunton shamelessly hiking their twilight rate from £50 to £70 last summer, solely due to Covid. Upset me quite a bit as I was really looking forward to playing there.

As above, I’d say it’s probably just greed, as they could simply choose not to take visitors. Instead they’re hoping for a wad of cash due to the circumstances.

I’m planning on only playing courses who haven’t hiked their green fees this summer. Aside from ethics, I also don’t have a good income, in part thanks to Covid.

For the rest, maybe I’ll be lucky enough to meet fellow members and share our quality golf courses via reciprocals. There are quite a few people doing this already and it’s certainly a great way to build friendships by helping each other.

 

[The Lion]

6 summer rounds for me based on visitor's price and I'm in profit

At that ratio, I’m guessing you’re a member at Carnoustie, Monifieth or Panmure?

This is one way of measuring it, but given how utterly out of proportion green fees at top clubs have inflated in recent years, I’d respectfully suggest it’s not the ideal way to measure value.

After all, would we really pay £100-200 a round on the same course multiple times a season? It’s hard to imagine almost anyone doing that.

 

[IanM]

As above, I’d say it’s probably just greed, as they could simply choose not to take visitors. Instead they’re hoping for a wad of cash due to the circumstances

I'd say Newport is doing it purely to reduce traffic, not hoping for the cash. Books balanced based on the subscriptions, Opens and Socs.

 

[The Lion]

I'd say Newport is doing it purely to reduce traffic, not hoping for the cash. Books balanced based on the subscriptions, Opens and Socs.

I get it, but I don’t know why they don’t just limit visitor tee times in that case. Easy enough to do.

PS Check the other thread about West Lancs. Have a suggestion for everyone.

 

[IanM]

I get it, but I don’t know why they don’t just limit visitor tee times in that case. Easy enough to do

...and we do that too

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

6 summer rounds for me based on visitor's price and I'm in profit

Interesting way to look at it! I could squeeze 8 rounds in, based on weekend/summer green fee, for the cost of my intermediate membership.