M40 Pub

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
There is certainly possibly a higher risk to others - but any risk is nothing like the risk here. Besides - comparing levels of risk in this context is fine - but accepting one risk does not somehow us to introduce other risks - perhaps with lower probability of happening - but with very significantly greater impact when it does.

And where is the risk mitigation? Will be the cops be sitting on the exits to the m/way pulling drivers over and doing random breath checks? Will they be patrolling the motorways looking for drunk drivers - that's clearly not going to happen. And even a drunk driver can often drive in a straight line doing 80mph - it's when he has to react to something...

And so - apart from a few - all here seem happy to accept the risk that someone might have three pints in a m/way pub and seriously misjudge rejoining a busy motorway with consequences we can guess.
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Do you have a link to a study for the increase risk for the pub ( weatherspoons restaurant that sells alcohol ) to open at the services.

Should all the prem inns near dual carriageways up and down the country close their related brewer fayre ?

Leamimgton Spa services is just off the motorway and it's way into Leamimgton with a Prem Inn - Shell Garage and Brewers Fayre
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Stop it! Booze sold in a m/way shop (that has to then be drunk in the car park) does not present the same temptation to a drinker than a pub - and you know it.
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If a drinker wants to have a drink then he doesn't need a pub to highlight the need.

The Weatherspoons is for people to have a cheaper meal as opposed to expensive rubbish take away in the Moto as opposed to a full blown boozer
 
Liverpoolphil, I feel you're purposefully being a little obtuse here.

I actually agree with SILH on this.

1) Many people go into a services as they're tired, hungry, bored, need the loo etc. Many times, people do not plan for the exact stop, and as such, won't get off at a random junction to look for a pub/brewers fayre etc etc. they see a sign, and go ooo services, and pull over.
Proof: The amount of people in a services.
Fact: People go to services.

2) People like to have a drink when it is offered. Many times people don't go looking for said drink, but if it is their in front of them, they will have one.
Proof: Unfortunately only seen this in a social situation, so I can't offer fact other than casual observation thousands of times

3) People are more likely to have a drink in a service station, if they're having a quick bite to eat at a Wetherspoons, than if they go in and buy from another place. We aren't talking about alcoholics or such like, who will buy a sandwich and a can of beer and eat both in their car. We are talking about normal people, who right now may go to McD's or such like, who would now eat at Mcdonalds.
Proof: You can't buy alcohol from Mcdonalds. Ergo, You are more likely to have a drink in a Wetherspoons than a Mcdonalds.

You need to forget about these millions of people who go to Brewers Fayre, or village pubs just off motorways. There is an increased risk of casual drinkers having 1 or 2 drinks, whilst in a service station, if it has a pub in it.

Please feel free to refute any of the above.
 
As a shareholder in Wetherspoons I heartily endorse this venture. So anyone stopping there please feel free to have as many pints as you can, unless you are the designated driver. ;)

If this takes off I'll bet they'll make a fortune from coach parties, especially football ones.
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Liverpoolphil, I feel you're purposefully being a little obtuse here.

I actually agree with SILH on this.

1) Many people go into a services as they're tired, hungry, bored, need the loo etc. Many times, people do not plan for the exact stop, and as such, won't get off at a random junction to look for a pub/brewers fayre etc etc. they see a sign, and go ooo services, and pull over.
Proof: The amount of people in a services.
Fact: People go to services.

2) People like to have a drink when it is offered. Many times people don't go looking for said drink, but if it is their in front of them, they will have one.
Proof: Unfortunately only seen this in a social situation, so I can't offer fact other than casual observation thousands of times

3) People are more likely to have a drink in a service station, if they're having a quick bite to eat at a Wetherspoons, than if they go in and buy from another place. We aren't talking about alcoholics or such like, who will buy a sandwich and a can of beer and eat both in their car. We are talking about normal people, who right now may go to McD's or such like, who would now eat at Mcdonalds.
Proof: You can't buy alcohol from Mcdonalds. Ergo, You are more likely to have a drink in a Wetherspoons than a Mcdonalds.

You need to forget about these millions of people who go to Brewers Fayre, or village pubs just off motorways. There is an increased risk of casual drinkers having 1 or 2 drinks, whilst in a service station, if it has a pub in it.

Please feel free to refute any of the above.
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Please feel free to prove the above in a study :thup: - please show me the facts that prove this increased risk of this pub.

I can go into a pub and have food without the need for a drink - is the motorway pub different from all those thousands of pubs alongside all the other major roads in the country including the A Roads with dual carriageways which have pubs and restaurants that sell alcohol - is the beer in this weatherspoons more appealing ?

All those people that need to drive to pubs and restaurants to eat - they manage to not drink.

What is the difference between this pub and one on a A road dual carriageway
 
Id have thought (Correct me if im wrong,im sure someone will) that someone who is stupid enough to Drink and Drive will be doing it either frequently or occasionally elsewhere and getting away with it.
In my opinion these are the drivers that are likely to succumb to the temptation in these services and I'd imagine Theres a much greater chance of them getting Caught here with all the CCTV/Clued up bar staff keeping an eye on customers/Occasional police presence in the services, Than there would be in a country pub elsewhere.

Drink driving is mostly habitual, If someone is stupid enough to try it on at these services I'd Hope/imagine Theres a good chance they'll be getting nicked, stopping them getting away with it elsewhere, and getting them off the roads.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Please feel free to prove the above in a study :thup: - please show me the facts that prove this increased risk of this pub.

I can go into a pub and have food without the need for a drink - is the motorway pub different from all those thousands of pubs alongside all the other major roads in the country including the A Roads with dual carriageways which have pubs and restaurants that sell alcohol - is the beer in this weatherspoons more appealing ?

All those people that need to drive to pubs and restaurants to eat - they manage to not drink.

What is the difference between this pub and one on a A road dual carriageway
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How would we have a study about pubs on motorways if one has only just been opened?

I fully respect where you are coming from, and I'm trying to look at this from an objective point of view.

I think the pubs and the A roads don't really have anything to do with this argument. Just because one thing happens, doesn't mean that later things that are similar are necessarily right. It may be that if there were no pubs next to main roads up to this point, if someone said "lets add a load of pubs", they may get shot down for it. Unfortunately they are there, not much we can do now, short of shutting them down, which would be ridiculous. We can, however, control what opens in the future.

A couple of points:

Whilst in a services, where are you more likely to drink Alcohol: A mcdonalds, or a Wetherspoons?
Answer: A Wetherspoons. I don't need a study to prove that, because Mcdonalds doesn't have alcohol. even the slightest 0.0001% of chance that you will get tempted in a Wetherspoons, will automatically be greater than the chance you will in a Mcdonalds.

You may be a brilliant person, for not being tempted. But I, along with many I know, clearly are not as good at resisting. If i'm waiting to meet a friend, it isn't unknown to go sit in a bar. Therefore if I'm in a service station, with 20 mins to kill while other people eat, it is just as easy to "have a pint". With no Wetherspoons there, this risk doesn't exist.

And no, "having a can" isn't the same. Why? Social acceptability. Many people wouldn't want to be seen sat in a service station swigging from a can, but if you're in a pub, then it's completely different.
 
The only way to stop drink driving would be to stop ALL sales of alcohol... Never gonna happen... That being the case I'd prefer it [consumption of alcohol] to be in as controlled an environment as possible... My only gripe is that all to often the designated drivers drink is dearer than the alcoholic ones...
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
How would we have a study about pubs on motorways if one has only just been opened?

I fully respect where you are coming from, and I'm trying to look at this from an objective point of view.

I think the pubs and the A roads don't really have anything to do with this argument. Just because one thing happens, doesn't mean that later things that are similar are necessarily right. It may be that if there were no pubs next to main roads up to this point, if someone said "lets add a load of pubs", they may get shot down for it. Unfortunately they are there, not much we can do now, short of shutting them down, which would be ridiculous. We can, however, control what opens in the future.

A couple of points:

Whilst in a services, where are you more likely to drink Alcohol: A mcdonalds, or a Wetherspoons?
Answer: A Wetherspoons. I don't need a study to prove that, because Mcdonalds doesn't have alcohol. even the slightest 0.0001% of chance that you will get tempted in a Wetherspoons, will automatically be greater than the chance you will in a Mcdonalds.

You may be a brilliant person, for not being tempted. But I, along with many I know, clearly are not as good at resisting. If i'm waiting to meet a friend, it isn't unknown to go sit in a bar. Therefore if I'm in a service station, with 20 mins to kill while other people eat, it is just as easy to "have a pint". With no Wetherspoons there, this risk doesn't exist.

And no, "having a can" isn't the same. Why? Social acceptability. Many people wouldn't want to be seen sat in a service station swigging from a can, but if you're in a pub, then it's completely different.
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So would you stop any pub opening up near a road ?

Until this pub opened up how many on here complained about pubs near roads ?

My friend was killed by a drunk driver - the guy was smashed drinking at home and was out driving looking for more booze. Most drink drivers are caught at night.

The sort of people using the motorways - coaches, trucks ,businessmen going to and from work , families on the way to visit family. Most will stop to eat at services or have a quick pee or have a rest - how many will be looking to stop for a quick pint on their 100-300 mile journey ? Well the license board don't see it as a risk as they have granted them a license - why ? Because there are establishments up and down the country near main roads and in services on A Roads that have somewhere to buy a pint

A weatherspoons doesn't suddenly make people think - well I'll have a pint - it's the same with beer in Mcd's on the continent m just because it's there doesn't mean you have to have one or are we a country with no self control.

Do people want the golf club to stop selling alcohol ? Because I bet there is a bigger risk for drink driving than a weatherspoons ( which will majorly be used for food )
 
Just because the licensing board grants a licence don't mean there is no risk. It is the same with all these control/planning/licensing boards then is usually something in it for them so just cause they say it is o.k does not for 1 minute mean it is. Pretty much anything gets passed and approved nowadays. However on this instance I do not really see the difference between selling in shops/petrol stations to having a pub. How about restricting the times when they can serve booze up at the pub seems it is mainly going to be food that is the money earner.
 
Your much more likely to be involved in a fatal crash on an A road than a motorway so why are people ok with these pubs but not with the prospect of one on a motorway?

Driving on a motorway is probably the easiest/safest form of driving.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Do people want the golf club to stop selling alcohol ? Because I bet there is a bigger risk for drink driving than a weatherspoons ( which will majorly be used for food )
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Spot on.....many on here will have seen their fellow members driving home with at least a couple of pints inside them.

A Golf/Bowls club is IMO a much greater risk from drunk drivers than this Weatherspoons.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Spot on.....many on here will have seen their fellow members driving home with at least a couple of pints inside them.

A Golf/Bowls club is IMO a much greater risk from drunk drivers than this Weatherspoons.
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I fully accept that DfT, and I'm not arguing against that.

I'm looking at this one pub in complete isolation. It doesn't matter what the rest of the roads/drinking establishments etc etc in the country do, I'm ignoring them.

If someone said was starting from scratch and said: "Would I like to have a pub on a motorway", I would say no. And this is what I'm applying to this situation.
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
I fully accept that DfT, and I'm not arguing against that.

I'm looking at this one pub in complete isolation. It doesn't matter what the rest of the roads/drinking establishments etc etc in the country do, I'm ignoring them.

If someone said was starting from scratch and said: "Would I like to have a pub on a motorway", I would say no. And this is what I'm applying to this situation.
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Why?
 
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