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Barking_Mad

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It needs packed courses, plenty of the top 10 players and paying spectators to be successful. TV isn't interested in paying big money for lower ranked players in front of empty galleries.
 

PJ87

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Mentioned yesterday, the course itself looked a lot tighter that your typical PGA event. Often it appeared one side of the fairway was just dense trees and out of bounds.

Would this be a reason for limited spectators? It is a lot easier for tens of thousands of spectators at huge courses and lots of areas for spectators to stand, coupled with many grandstands.

Furthermore, how many regular golf fans truly know much about it yet? We've talked about it to death in this forum, but outside of here it is not a regular big event fans know about for months, and plan their schedule in advance to attend. The guys in my golf whatsapp chat didn't know much about it, but sort of started asking questions a few days ago when it hit the main news headlines. When DJ entered it probably became big news, but not early enough for many to plan a visit.

I've been talking about to a few golf friends and most weren't aware

Some were interested by the format and liked how quick fire it was
 

Ethan

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Pros start playing very very young. When did one lengths become a proper alternative this time round what 2016? So you won't see many more pros coming through using them for a few more years yet ..

I doubt a very good pro would change unless they are a "freak" like you say about Bryson

Other flavours of one length, e.g. reduced change in length, have been around since at least the 80s. Adoption of new stuff is very fast these days. I doubt we will see any other serious players adopting them. They help what would otherwise have been longer clubs more, players don't use them so much, but they impair what would otherwise be shorter clubs and players use those clubs a lot more than they used to.

Bryson is a brand, and he has chosen this scientist/beast as his brand. No doubt LIV will choose some courses that suit his style of play. Phil is 51, so his role is only to kickstart LIV, but someone is needed to carry it forward. DJ has no personality, so it won't be him, so BdC is the putative figurehead and he will have to win stuff in that role. Expect to see lots of connections to US betting and probably CBD and other stuff that is on-brand for the demographic they are targeting.
 

Bdill93

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In regards to them capping the event

1) I don't think there was anywhere near 8k there yesterday

2) That seems like a convenient press release when they were literally giving away tickets for free. I assume this was because they had barely sold any, as most of the people I spoke to at the event were in the same boat as me - they got free tickets with a code online

Im going on Sat - what was the parking stuff like?

Food readily avaliable?
 

PJ87

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20220610_085629.jpg20220610_085626.jpg

Saw this on twitter. Yes the viewers are more but sky have this on TV so will be wrong

However Liv golf on YouTube has more subscription numbers than skygolf on YouTube
 

Depreston

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View attachment 42997View attachment 42998

Saw this on twitter. Yes the viewers are more but sky have this on TV so will be wrong

However Liv golf on YouTube has more subscription numbers than skygolf on YouTube

Was looking into the American viewing figures for pga tour events… Charles shwaab so bog standard event on the Calendar this year… on a Thursday 368k on the Golf Channel

Rose to 2.43 million on the Sunday
 

PJ87

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Was looking into the American viewing figures for pga tour events… Charles shwaab so bog standard event on the Calendar this year… on a Thursday 368k on the Golf Channel

Rose to 2.43 million on the Sunday

I don't think Liv will get above 250k this Saturday
 
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All of them are a loss to the tour, take away Bryson and you take away the rivalry with "Brooksy", and that's just one element. All these players, Phil, DJ, Sergio and his tantrums, Poulter and his trousers, Kevin Na and his slow play - it all generates talking points which add to the appeal.

The PGA tour has lost out big time, and it's their own doing.

Think you are going a touch overboard in regards how much the PGA Tour has currently lost - the only two that have any sort of impact are DJ and Phil Mickleson and even then DJ hasn’t been a highlight player for a year or so at the moment and Mickleson is very much marmite

If the likes of Rory , Morikawa , Smith , etc who are the future of golf moved across them it may well change things but until then the players going over won’t have too much of an impact

Unless the R&A, USGA, Masters and PGA of America come out and stand alongside the PGA Tour, these guys will in the main still get in to the some or all of the majors, so the PGA have left themselves with a bunch of events that make up the numbers, with a lot of the big names in golf banned by them, from participating in.

The R&A and USGA will allow anyone to qualify but without the ranking points the players will need to go through all stages of Qualfiying to gain entry - the Masters it’s normally top 50 world plus past winners and a few others , they don’t give out other invites so they won’t gain entry into The Masters unless a previous winner , the US PGA will work on ranking points again , same with WGC

So for the Tour to really get viable beyond a big pay day then it’s going to need to get ranking points but then the events are a different format so the level available might not be sufficient- until then it’s going to be as much mates said yesterday more like a very rich exhibition event
 

rksquire

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Waiting for this to start so that things become more clear has really only made things less so.

From the Canadian pressers on Wednesday and general chat it was clear the PGA Tour intended to wait until LIV had teed off to release their statement. Not sure where I fall on that (strategic masterclass to take some attention of LIV during the event or actually just a bit petty and silly - consequences were well anticipated).

Streaming PGA vs LIV vs DPWT on Youtube was brave - as others have said, viewing numbers are pretty inconclusive except, I believe, in the case of the DPWT. That tour is now essentially done and dusted - not just because they can only muster viewers in the 100s online, but because tickets are still available for attendance every day, the field and leaderboard is worse than LIVs, the stars are hard pushed to turn up for their own Opens (looking at you McIlroy) etc.

Everybody on course at the one time from the - great from a TV/online viewing perspective. Some of the golf was really good. Some, not so much... but the course certainly doesn't set up as a gift. The motor racing style leaderboard is okay, needs some work in my opinion - as others mentioned, the 'noise' is annoying, incorporating the team logos into the individual leaderboard is F1-esque but I'm not used to that yet. The commentary was alright. The spectators using their phones to capture moments (when Phil was in a tight spot) - I imagine this will be actively encouraged to promote social media feeds etc.

Having listened to BBC Sounds podcast last night with people with alternative views to Carter (even quite soft with regard to the Asian tour chief), if I was in the DPWT I would be extremely worried. The Asian Tour having accepted money and an alliance will greatly benefit and players interested in world ranking points and other tournament qualifications will clearly be joining the Asian Tour. With enough money and power I'm sure they'll be thinking they can strengthen the field and therefore the points. The PGA and DPWT clearly haven't closed all loopholes. If I was the DPWT I'd be finding a way to live together - there's a good chance the riches of LIV combined with the DPWT schedule, ranking points and legitimacy could see the PGA Tour relegated to second best.

Thomas and McIlroy, from their comments, also appear to think others will have a price. BDC is a blow, Fowler not so much but he is marketable. If Brooks goes... pretty sure others will follow. The thing about LIV is that it's modern but manufactured; in time that will produce manufactured superstars but you won't necessarily know their quality.
 

AddisonRoad

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Im going on Sat - what was the parking stuff like?

Food readily avaliable?

In terms of parking, you park at a showground and they shuttle you in on buses. Since the attendance was so low, this was entirely painless - the bus was immediately available and you didn't have to line up to leave (and we left pretty much right after the golf finished, so we were assuming we'd have to wait a bit).

In terms of food, there are plenty of independent food trucks in the main entertainment area, as well as scattered at a few other locations around the course. Again, you didn't need to wait long to be served. Also, if you're at one of the bars that's on an elevated platform looking at multiple holes, it will likely serve food (it doesn't look like these places serve food, but if you ask they have a menu and the food is actually decent).
 

rksquire

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Think you are going a touch overboard in regards how much the PGA Tour has currently lost - the only two that have any sort of impact are DJ and Phil Mickleson and even then DJ hasn’t been a highlight player for a year or so at the moment and Mickleson is very much marmite

If the likes of Rory , Morikawa , Smith , etc who are the future of golf moved across them it may well change things but until then the players going over won’t have too much of an impact



The R&A and USGA will allow anyone to qualify but without the ranking points the players will need to go through all stages of Qualfiying to gain entry - the Masters it’s normally top 50 world plus past winners and a few others , they don’t give out other invites so they won’t gain entry into The Masters unless a previous winner , the US PGA will work on ranking points again , same with WGC

So for the Tour to really get viable beyond a big pay day then it’s going to need to get ranking points but then the events are a different format so the level available might not be sufficient- until then it’s going to be as much mates said yesterday more like a very rich exhibition event

See my point above about the Asian Tour - it appears a 'loophole' exists and is being explored, they are expecting (or have received) applications to join an official Tour (a Tour that already feels badly let down by the DPWT and PGA moving into their territory). The BBC has a podcast about LIV (released a day or so ago) and it is not good news for the DPWT.
 

Mel Smooth

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Think you are going a touch overboard in regards how much the PGA Tour has currently lost - the only two that have any sort of impact are DJ and Phil Mickleson and even then DJ hasn’t been a highlight player for a year or so at the moment and Mickleson is very much marmite

If the likes of Rory , Morikawa , Smith , etc who are the future of golf moved across them it may well change things but until then the players going over won’t have too much of an impact



The R&A and USGA will allow anyone to qualify but without the ranking points the players will need to go through all stages of Qualfiying to gain entry - the Masters it’s normally top 50 world plus past winners and a few others , they don’t give out other invites so they won’t gain entry into The Masters unless a previous winner , the US PGA will work on ranking points again , same with WGC

So for the Tour to really get viable beyond a big pay day then it’s going to need to get ranking points but then the events are a different format so the level available might not be sufficient- until then it’s going to be as much mates said yesterday more like a very rich exhibition event

Phil, I quite specifically said that "these guys", as in the ones I'd mention, would in the main get in to some or all of the majors - by expemtion or invite.
I know the lesser known players cant (at the moment) get OWGR ranking points on the LIV series, they can get them on other tours of course, even though they have less value than on the PGA Tour - so probably still not enough to qualify. Having said that, how many would qualify anyway - how many would even get on the PGA Tour - you've seen the cost of going through Q school I take it.

You are just judging the players value to the tour based on their ability, not their marketability, and at the end of the day - everything boils down to money - there will be PGA Tour sponsors right now asking the PGA Tour, "why have you binned off player x - he's part of the reason we fund your organisation"

Also, what happens when the LIV series starts creating high profile players on it's own merit. There's a couple of guys at the top of the leaderboard who are unknowns, if they beat DJ, Phil, Na, Louis etc, they haven't got lucky to beat them all, they've done it on merit, against high ranking players.

The public, will then WANT to see them in the higher profile events, where they can go head to head with what the PGA Tour claims are the best players in the World.
The sponsors will want them involved too, and as I keep saying, money talks.
 

Bdill93

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Think you are going a touch overboard in regards how much the PGA Tour has currently lost - the only two that have any sort of impact are DJ and Phil Mickleson and even then DJ hasn’t been a highlight player for a year or so at the moment and Mickleson is very much marmite

If the likes of Rory , Morikawa , Smith , etc who are the future of golf moved across them it may well change things but until then the players going over won’t have too much of an impact



The R&A and USGA will allow anyone to qualify but without the ranking points the players will need to go through all stages of Qualfiying to gain entry - the Masters it’s normally top 50 world plus past winners and a few others , they don’t give out other invites so they won’t gain entry into The Masters unless a previous winner , the US PGA will work on ranking points again , same with WGC

So for the Tour to really get viable beyond a big pay day then it’s going to need to get ranking points but then the events are a different format so the level available might not be sufficient- until then it’s going to be as much mates said yesterday more like a very rich exhibition event


We've lost a good handful of top british talent from the PGA tour though. Thats significant.
In terms of parking, you park at a showground and they shuttle you in on buses. Since the attendance was so low, this was entirely painless - the bus was immediately available and you didn't have to line up to leave (and we left pretty much right after the golf finished, so we were assuming we'd have to wait a bit).

In terms of food, there are plenty of independent food trucks in the main entertainment area, as well as scattered at a few other locations around the course. Again, you didn't need to wait long to be served. Also, if you're at one of the bars that's on an elevated platform looking at multiple holes, it will likely serve food (it doesn't look like these places serve food, but if you ask they have a menu and the food is actually decent).

Cheers mate! Appreciate the response!

Looking forward to a walk around Centurion and to see the pros in real life! Might be a few cheeky bevs in there too :ROFLMAO:
 

Swango1980

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Other flavours of one length, e.g. reduced change in length, have been around since at least the 80s. Adoption of new stuff is very fast these days. I doubt we will see any other serious players adopting them. They help what would otherwise have been longer clubs more, players don't use them so much, but they impair what would otherwise be shorter clubs and players use those clubs a lot more than they used to.

Bryson is a brand, and he has chosen this scientist/beast as his brand. No doubt LIV will choose some courses that suit his style of play. Phil is 51, so his role is only to kickstart LIV, but someone is needed to carry it forward. DJ has no personality, so it won't be him, so BdC is the putative figurehead and he will have to win stuff in that role. Expect to see lots of connections to US betting and probably CBD and other stuff that is on-brand for the demographic they are targeting.
Works for Bryson though, does it not. Stiff shafts are not for everyone, flexible shafts are not for everyone. Some like thick grips, other thin grips. Bryson has a fairly unique golf swing and body shape. He has probably evaluated his own swing and the golf equipment he uses more than most other people, and I am almost certain he knows what works best for him better than you know what works for him. Fair play for him thinking outside the box and coming up with something unique.

If he had been some 28 handicap duffer at your club, I would be more likely to agree with you.
 

evemccc

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Think you are going a touch overboard in regards how much the PGA Tour has currently lost - the only two that have any sort of impact are DJ and Phil Mickleson and even then DJ hasn’t been a highlight player for a year or so at the moment and Mickleson is very much marmite

If the likes of Rory , Morikawa , Smith , etc who are the future of golf moved across them it may well change things but until then the players going over won’t have too much of an impact



The R&A and USGA will allow anyone to qualify but without the ranking points the players will need to go through all stages of Qualfiying to gain entry - the Masters it’s normally top 50 world plus past winners and a few others , they don’t give out other invites so they won’t gain entry into The Masters unless a previous winner , the US PGA will work on ranking points again , same with WGC

So for the Tour to really get viable beyond a big pay day then it’s going to need to get ranking points but then the events are a different format so the level available might not be sufficient- until then it’s going to be as much mates said yesterday more like a very rich exhibition event

I don’t think Morikawa ‘moved the needle’ at all before summer of 2020 and Sam Burns, currently No. 2 in the FedEx Cup leaderboard doesn’t one move it one iota today

Patrick Cantlay No. 4 in the FE Cup isn’t going to help many advertisers as nearly as much as Bryson, Phil, DJ, and Bubba…irrespective of rankings. The PGA Tour is controlled by money from advertisers. Sorry but this is a truism. And the No. 5 Justin Thomas, seemingly the ultimate ‘preppy country club spoilt kid’ has all the charisma of a wet fish

The one thing however that could significantly help the PGA Tour is the Netflix series
 

sunshine

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Losing Free to Air sport is disaster, there is quite a difference between having something aired on BBC1 for instance and something on YouTube. It is quite easy to stick on the TV and the golf come on, or there's not much good on and golf is the best option just have on in the background. YouTube may be free, but the person will have to deliberately go to the golf page in order to watch.

Are that many young people desperate to watch golf who cannot afford Sky that will watch it? I don't think so, the argument for losing free to air golf is that you lose the casual viewer who could potentially then become a fan

My children don't watch TV channels, probably don't even know what BBC1 is. They watch everything on YouTube.
 
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