LIV Golf

[Hobbit]

As long as there’s decent golf on the TV, does it really matter? I quite often put the golf on and don’t know just which tour I’m watching at first. Isn’t that what we’re all interested in, watching decent golf?

Quite who is wringing their hands or beating their chest is irrelevant to me. DP, PGAT, Korn Ferry or National Express coach tours, I just want to see good golf.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Hypothetical, but it is feasible that the LIV events of which they aren't as many and which have a much smaller field, could continue to run at the same time as PGA and DPWT events with players choosing which event they want to play.
Pre LIV the choice was always between the PGAT and the DPWT with the DPWT losing out to the bigger purses. The DPWT probably still loses out in this scenario but the other two get to share the talent. Perhaps teams will "transfer in" a player for a particular match. I could see Sergio transferring Rory in for a week.

Where does the money come to fund both the events

At the moment LIV are only surviving due to the money given to them by PIF , none of the events or indeed the whole tour is sustainable

PIF aren’t going to keep just giving that money and all the sponsership and Telly deals the PGAT have got won’t spread across all the events.

 

[CountLippe]

I agree with most of this, however whether the format was going to be a long term success or not was still unknown - it only was going for a year wasn’t it? This move has got the Saudis what they want a lot quicker with less risk, whether they could have got to this position without the disrupter LIV concept is open to debate.

Great question.

My initial thoughts are that the Saudi's have played a blinder. Set up a league which was bound to fail - any due diligence would have told you that - but gave it enough USP to legitimately claim credibility.
In fighting the rival 'tour' the PGA Tour were bleeding money, not only in legal fees but also in unsustainable raising of prize funds. Sponsors obviously weren't happy and the PGA Tour literally couldn't afford to carry on. Now the Saudis's have their seat at the table and another sportswash is complete. Frightening.

 

[WGCRider]

To take golf back to the global market - which is what will now happen.
Anybody thinking (still), that the PGAT will carry on and all the LIV players will go back, essentially going back to how it was are misguided. The Saudis want an international market to showcase their country as a tourist destination, and that means they'll be taking their 'assets' all over the world to grow their brand.

Nobody knows what will happen but I'd say it's almost 100% certain than not even the Saudi's think Saudi Arabia is a tourist destination!

 

[BrianM]

Nobody knows what will happen but I'd say it's almost 100% certain than not even the Saudi's think Saudi Arabia is a tourist destination!

I’m not so sure about that, ever been?

 

[Crow]

As long as there’s decent golf on the TV, does it really matter? I quite often put the golf on and don’t know just which tour I’m watching at first. Isn’t that what we’re all interested in, watching decent golf?

Quite who is wringing their hands or beating their chest is irrelevant to me. DP, PGAT, Korn Ferry or National Express coach tours, I just want to see good golf.

I think it matters.

Golf fans are just being pissed all over so that the the mega rich can get a bit richer, or smarten up their reputation.
Professional golf has become an insidious organisation working in directions it shouldn't be and I for one will watch even less of it than I currently do, which is already very little.

 

[RichA]

I think it matters.

Golf fans are just being pissed all over so that the the mega rich can get a bit richer, or smarten up their reputation.
Professional golf has become an insidious organisation working in directions it shouldn't be and I for one will watch even less of it than I currently do, which is already very little.

Similarly, I have minimal interest in pro golf outside of the majors. I enjoy watching the climax of a major or a Ryder cup without really caring who wins. It's good golf on a nice, historic course.
Full Swing was good as it confirmed what a vacuous bunch most of them are.
If the majors get into bed with a questionable regime I'll probably not bother watching them either and it won't greatly impact my hobby, which is playing golf.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Where does the money come to fund both the events

At the moment LIV are only surviving due to the money given to them by PIF , none of the events or indeed the whole tour is sustainable

PIF aren’t going to keep just giving that money and all the sponsership and Telly deals the PGAT have got won’t spread across all the events.

TV rights

 

[Hobbit]

I think it matters.

Golf fans are just being pissed all over so that the the mega rich can get a bit richer, or smarten up their reputation.
Professional golf has become an insidious organisation working in directions it shouldn't be and I for one will watch even less of it than I currently do, which is already very little.

The PGA tour has bullied the lesser tours for 40 years or more, and in that time the fans have had the opportunity to watch more golf, not less. Ticket prices haven’t budged a huge amount against inflation during that time apart from the blue ribbon events like the Open, whose pricing is controlled by the R&A. Now their pricing has gone through the roof - can’t blame LIV for the horrendous increases to the Open ticket prices, nor the tours.

As for where the tours are getting their money from, it’s mainly through sponsorship and selling rights. That’s barely hurting golf fans.

 

[TheDiablo]

Aside from the obvious losers on the Liv side - Greg Norman and the absolutely detestable twitter bot army, there’s also a fair few others that will be miffed by the sudden shutdown

Aussie golf fans - back to them not getting big names at events

Junior Liv players - assume the likes of Puig, Piot, Chacarra, Olgetree will now have to earn money rather than being handed it, they’ll likely need to go to kft q school

Mid level Liv - going from guaranteed 10+ mill for next few years back to the rank and file of the journeyman grind

Old boys - Sergio ‘can’t wait to get off this effing tour’ Garcia, Westwood and others not old enough for Champs tour and going to be tough to get back to competitive level. Retirement fund seriously slashed!

Team captains - likes of Kaymer, Bubba etc who won’t get any money from selling teams (lol) in a few years

Main winners being Brooks, DJ, Cam and Gooch

Finally, wonder how Pat Perez feels this morning!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

TV rights

The ones that are used to help fund the current PGAT events ?

Do you think the PGAT will allow that money to be moved to fund the vast amounts of money being paid to the current golfers on LIV ? Nah all those contacts etc will be null and void at the end of this season and the players returning will have to pay something from the money they have earned

Aside from the obvious losers on the Liv side - Greg Norman and the absolutely detestable twitter bot army, there’s also a fair few others that will be miffed by the sudden shutdown

Aussie golf fans - back to them not getting big names at events

Junior Liv players - assume the likes of Puig, Piot, Chacarra, Olgetree will now have to earn money rather than being handed it, they’ll likely need to go to kft q school

Mid level Liv - going from guaranteed 10+ mill for next few years back to the rank and file of the journeyman grind

Old boys - Sergio ‘can’t wait to get off this effing tour’ Garcia, Westwood and others not old enough for Champs tour and going to be tough to get back to competitive level. Retirement fund seriously slashed!

Team captains - likes of Kaymer, Bubba etc who won’t get any money from selling teams (lol) in a few years

Main winners being Brooks, DJ, Cam and Gooch

Finally, wonder how Pat Perez feels this morning!

I would hope both the PGAT and ET would look at how well received the event was in Australia and look to build on that - it’s the one area that was a success for LIV

 

[Swango1980]

Aside from the obvious losers on the Liv side - Greg Norman and the absolutely detestable twitter bot army, there’s also a fair few others that will be miffed by the sudden shutdown

Aussie golf fans - back to them not getting big names at events

Junior Liv players - assume the likes of Puig, Piot, Chacarra, Olgetree will now have to earn money rather than being handed it, they’ll likely need to go to kft q school

Mid level Liv - going from guaranteed 10+ mill for next few years back to the rank and file of the journeyman grind

Old boys - Sergio ‘can’t wait to get off this effing tour’ Garcia, Westwood and others not old enough for Champs tour and going to be tough to get back to competitive level. Retirement fund seriously slashed!

Team captains - likes of Kaymer, Bubba etc who won’t get any money from selling teams (lol) in a few years

Main winners being Brooks, DJ, Cam and Gooch

Finally, wonder how Pat Perez feels this morning!

Other losers, quite a few lawyers

 

[Crow]

The PGA tour has bullied the lesser tours for 40 years or more, and in that time the fans have had the opportunity to watch more golf, not less. Ticket prices haven’t budged a huge amount against inflation during that time apart from the blue ribbon events like the Open, whose pricing is controlled by the R&A. Now their pricing has gone through the roof - can’t blame LIV for the horrendous increases to the Open ticket prices, nor the tours.

As for where the tours are getting their money from, it’s mainly through sponsorship and selling rights. That’s barely hurting golf fans.

If that's all you care about then you're a winner.
I know shady money and organisations have long had a finger in the golf pie but for me it's all come to a head now, I'm out, as people like to say.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Nobody knows what will happen but I'd say it's almost 100% certain than not even the Saudi's think Saudi Arabia is a tourist destination!

I'd encourage you to have a read on their 2030 vision.

 

[Bdill93]

I think it leads to more events across the world - and that's all I actually care about.

If they bring one more big event to the UK (Like LIV have) a year with all the big names - that isn't The Open - then the whole thing is a win for me as a golf fan.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Where does the money come to fund both the events

At the moment LIV are only surviving due to the money given to them by PIF , none of the events or indeed the whole tour is sustainable

PIF aren’t going to keep just giving that money and all the sponsership and Telly deals the PGAT have got won’t spread across all the events.

The Saudis don’t need TV revenue to fund this. Their PIF has hundreds of billions to buy up control of sports through their oil sales and knowing oil will become a very much less needed commodity, they don’t want to lose their importance in the area and World.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nobody knows what will happen but I'd say it's almost 100% certain than not even the Saudi's think Saudi Arabia is a tourist destination!

I’m not so sure about that, ever been?

It's worked spectacularly well for the UAE, Dubai. They also advertise SA as a holiday destination now. I haven't been, not been to Dubai either, but that doesn't mean that it wont start to happen.

 

[Beezerk]

Heard the tail end of the Paul McGinley interview on Radio 5 earlier, he waffled a lot as usual but did I hear him right, the PGAT were struggling financially due to poor tv deals and would have been in a worse financial position to sell next year?
I need to hear it back in a podcast to hear what he said exactly.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I’ve read that the PGA Tour will control holes 1-8 and 12-18.

The Saudi’s will do 9-11

 

[LincolnShep]

Other losers, quite a few lawyers

They'll now be employed to write up the terms of the new agreement.