LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

I take it you didn't see Bubba's comments yesterday - they are planning on setting up a RangeGoats academy - at their own range - so kids can come along and try golf - just the tip of the iceberg - there's no reason why in time, teams can't have their own academies scouting for talent across the world just as football does now.

Would that be growing the game Phil?

If it happens then yes it would be growing the game

“IF” - is the key word , we have heard a lot of these type of plans being talked about , just like selling the franchises etc - not much fruition from those words though

There are ranges all over the world where kids can try golf - what would be different about these ranges then ?

And academies ? Do you mean just like the US Collegiate system which is in place right now which also provides them with an education- so what would be different about the academy’s

 

[IJames]

Yes. Obsessed is going a little far, but the point is apt - if you did take away all the LIV commentary there would be simply nothing left. From a purely sporting point of view, it simply doesnt exist.

I wish they would! It's definitely not to my taste! The scoreoard takes up too much of the screen too. And, for me, the team aspect is a waste of space - though likely critical to its survival. FWIW, I don't have an issue with there being competition to the, fairly monopolistic imo, PGA Tour, but I don't believe LIV i a worthy alternative!

 

[Mel Smooth]

If it happens then yes it would be growing the game

“IF” - is the key word , we have heard a lot of these type of plans being talked about , just like selling the franchises etc - not much fruition from those words though

There are ranges all over the world where kids can try golf - what would be different about these ranges then ?

And academies ? Do you mean just like the US Collegiate system which is in place right now which also provides them with an education- so what would be different about the academy’s

If is a keyword, because with LIV less than a year old, there's no way that they could have 'made it happen' already.

Yes, there are ranges all over the world, there are football pitches all over, but if you opened a facility that was sanctioned and supported by some of the best footballers in the area, where do you think the kids would want to head?

Now on the collegiate system, why can't it exist on a global scale? Why can't the Stingers etc be picking up kids at a young age and honing them so they can go to higher education, play competitive golf, get coached, and move forwards into a golf career? Why does it only have to be in the USA? There will be hundreds of kids that never get that chance because their talent isn't picked up due to geographical or financial restrictions, so anything that can be done to improve that, is growing the game, isn't it?

Your whole argument from day 1 has been - There's nothing wrong with the current system and any attempt to change it is bad. Odd...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If is a keyword, because with LIV less than a year old, there's no way that they could have 'made it happen' already.

Yes, there are ranges all over the world, there are football pitches all over, but if you opened a facility that was sanctioned and supported by some of the best footballers in the area, where do you think the kids would want to head?

Now on the collegiate system, why can't it exist on a global scale? Why can't the Stingers etc be picking up kids at a young age and honing them so they can go to higher education, play competitive golf, get coached, and move forwards into a golf career? Why does it only have to be in the USA? There will be hundreds of kids that never get that chance because their talent isn't picked up due to geographical or financial restrictions, so anything that can be done to improve that, is growing the game, isn't it?

Your whole argument from day 1 has been - There's nothing wrong with the current system and any attempt to change it is bad. Odd...

No it hasn’t

The whole “argument” is right now LiV have done nothing more than make a bunch of rich people richer

It’s made a lot of noise but little action beyond that

Loads of claims exactly like your posting - it’s pie in the sky nonsense at the end of the day

This is a tour that can’t even get major sponsors, can’t get major media deals - is being solely held up by Saudi money because it can’t stand on its own. You keep using the excuse that it’s only a year old - well how the heck did the hundred manage to have -major sponsorship for each team and multiple media deals in place before it even started. Yet you think it’s going to start setting up academies all over the world

There are already multiple facilities all over the world for people to get into golf , multiple programs up and down all the ages - what’s this “golden egg” that LiV will suddenly pull out of the basket that’s going to make all these kids that weren’t interested before go rushing to pick up the club.

 

[Backsticks]

No it hasn’t

The whole “argument” is right now LiV have done nothing more than make a bunch of rich people richer

It’s made a lot of noise but little action beyond that

Loads of claims exactly like your posting - it’s pie in the sky nonsense at the end of the day

This is a tour that can’t even get major sponsors, can’t get major media deals - is being solely held up by Saudi money because it can’t stand on its own. You keep using the excuse that it’s only a year old - well how the heck did the hundred manage to have -major sponsorship for each team and multiple media deals in place before it even started. Yet you think it’s going to start setting up academies all over the world

There are already multiple facilities all over the world for people to get into golf , multiple programs up and down all the ages - what’s this “golden egg” that LiV will suddenly pull out of the basket that’s going to make all these kids that weren’t interested before go rushing to pick up the club.

They have degraded the product of elite pro golf a little. Only a little though. By removing Bryson, DJ, Reed, from active service, and calling time early on what might have been for Smith, top golf is the poorer. That is the only net, purely, golfing influence the whole venture has had. I dont follow the seniors tour though some like it. But removing Phil, Poults and the like from that really doesnt amount to anything. To be fair to the Champions Tour, it at least is competitive. Handicapped by age. But competitive within that. Which is better than an exhibition tour any day for me.

 

[Mel Smooth]

No it hasn’t

The whole “argument” is right now LiV have done nothing more than make a bunch of rich people richer

It’s made a lot of noise but little action beyond that

Loads of claims exactly like your posting - it’s pie in the sky nonsense at the end of the day

This is a tour that can’t even get major sponsors, can’t get major media deals - is being solely held up by Saudi money because it can’t stand on its own. You keep using the excuse that it’s only a year old - well how the heck did the hundred manage to have -major sponsorship for each team and multiple media deals in place before it even started. Yet you think it’s going to start setting up academies all over the world

There are already multiple facilities all over the world for people to get into golf , multiple programs up and down all the ages - what’s this “golden egg” that LiV will suddenly pull out of the basket that’s going to make all these kids that weren’t interested before go rushing to pick up the club.

Sometimes Phillip, patience is a virtue - you seem to have none. LIV have brought forward the team element - initially planned for next year I think, so at this stage, it is already ahead of schedule. The series effectively operating at minus 10 months ahead of the initial timeline. They haven't got any major deals announced because another tour are doing their damndest to sully the tour with as much negativity as they can - but once clarity has been shown - the deals will come. People are already starting to see through it, even Eddie Pepperell - a man very much opposed to LIV is seeing the strategic alliance for what it really is...

You say it will fold withing three years, is that three years from June 2022, now, the next time you say it will fold within 3 years - either way, you will be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sometimes Phillip, patience is a virtue - you seem to have none. LIV have brought forward the team element - initially planned for next year I think, so at this stage, it is already ahead of schedule. The series effectively operating at minus 10 months ahead of the initial timeline. They haven't got any major deals announced because another tour are doing their damndest to sully the tour with as much negativity as they can - but once clarity has been shown - the deals will come. People are already starting to see through it, even Eddie Pepperell - a man very much opposed to LIV is seeing the strategic alliance for what it really is...

You say it will fold withing three years, is that three years from June 2022, now, the next time you say it will fold within 3 years - either way, you will be wrong.

So the only reasons they have no major deals sorted is because of the PGAT ?

That tour is stopping all those media companies around the world from picking up the rights ? It’s stopping all those major companies from providing any sort of sponsorship?

Do you potentially think there could be another reason why people don’t want to touch it or be associated with it ?

Could it possibly be the toxicity of the tour ? The lawsuits it’s bringing ? The source of the funding ? The negativity it’s added to the sport ?

Are you capable of looking inwards and see any issues that LIV and indeed GN have caused ?

Other start ups have things in place like a simple media deal and sponsorship- LIV can’t get it.

It’s had its first event this year and very little was said about it because the initial appeal of it has gone , it’s no longer a gimmick , all these grand plans you keep talking about are no closer to being fulfilled than the grand plans from last year - remember all your talk about selling franchises to OEM etc , they haven’t even managed to attract any further big players. Yes the bubble is leaking air already

 

[IJames]

Your whole argument from day 1 has been - There's nothing wrong with the current system and any attempt to change it is bad. Odd...

There WAS nothing wrong with the existing system! Though LIV's creation has caused it to change - not always for the better imo. To me, any change that reduces competition at the highest level is 'bad' and LIV certainly does that. It has, however, increased overall competitive golf - and rewards - so not all negative. I don't think it will last though, even if the team element takes off.

 

[Mel Smooth]

So the only reasons they have no major deals sorted is because of the PGAT ?

That tour is stopping all those media companies around the world from picking up the rights ? It’s stopping all those major companies from providing any sort of sponsorship?

Do you potentially think there could be another reason why people don’t want to touch it or be associated with it ?

Could it possibly be the toxicity of the tour ? The lawsuits it’s bringing ? The source of the funding ? The negativity it’s added to the sport ?

Are you capable of looking inwards and see any issues that LIV and indeed GN have caused ?

Other start ups have things in place like a simple media deal and sponsorship- LIV can’t get it.

It’s had its first event this year and very little was said about it because the initial appeal of it has gone , it’s no longer a gimmick , all these grand plans you keep talking about are no closer to being fulfilled than the grand plans from last year - remember all your talk about selling franchises to OEM etc , they haven’t even managed to attract any further big players. Yes the bubble is leaking air already

I think you've got your head in the Saudi sand Phil. There is no toxicity beyond the PGA aligned media - if there was, those LIV players wouldn't be teeing it up at Augusta next week would they? You're correct, it is no longer a gimmick, people have accepted it as an alternative to the PGA tour, and the DPWT. Some Americans hate it, some traditionalists in the UK hate it, but generally, people are enjoying it. If you watch it with an open mind you'll see entertaining, quality golf, done a little differently to the way everybody else does it. Hate on it if you want, post on a forum about your disdain for it and how you feel it will fail, and throw in a few Greg Norman cliches along the way if you like. In time, I will be right, and you will be wrong. ;-)

 

[Mel Smooth]

There WAS nothing wrong with the existing system! Though LIV's creation has caused it to change - not always for the better imo. To me, any change that reduces competition at the highest level is 'bad' and LIV certainly does that. It has, however, increased overall competitive golf - and rewards - so not all negative. I don't think it will last though, even if the team element takes off.

Well they're all competing at the highest of highest levels next week at ANGC mate, with a little spice added. Personally, I think that is absolutely fantastic for the sport.

 

[Brammall Mac]

I think you've got your head in the Saudi sand Phil. There is no toxicity beyond the PGA aligned media - if there was, those LIV players wouldn't be teeing it up at Augusta next week would they? You're correct, it is no longer a gimmick, people have accepted it as an alternative to the PGA tour, and the DPWT. Some Americans hate it, some traditionalists in the UK hate it, but generally, people are enjoying it. If you watch it with an open mind you'll see entertaining, quality golf, done a little differently to the way everybody else does it. Hate on it if you want, post on a forum about your disdain for it and how you feel it will fail, and throw in a few Greg Norman cliches along the way if you like. In time, I will be right, and you will be wrong. ;-)

It’s a poor product, run by horrid people, nobody is watching and it’s dying on its backside. And the attempts to push the teams aspect are laughable.

Think that about covers it.

 

[IJames]

Well they're all competing at the highest of highest levels next week at ANGC mate, with a little spice added. Personally, I think that is absolutely fantastic for the sport.

Still a massive reduction from pre-LIV when that was a 'most weeks' occurrence! And no not all, but that was their choice, which has reduced my enjoyment somewhat!

 

[IJames]

It’s a poor product, run by horrid people, nobody is watching and it’s dying on its backside. And the attempts to push the teams aspect are laughable.

Think that about covers it.

While I think you are likely correct, I'll give it this year to see what sponsorship it aquires. Viewership is certainly pretty minimal and publicity, apart from Mel etc, has certainly dropped. Biggest question, for me, is 'Where has Greg gone'.

 

[Bdill93]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641939411028901888

Oh he’s not helping himself here

 

[Mel Smooth]

Some exciting news for the professional golf world.....

 

[IanM]

No calendars in your house?

 

[Backsticks]

Some exciting news for the professional golf world.....

View attachment 47179

Saw that. The story seems to be that LIV players have done a deal to become full time Challenge Tour players, with all previously planned LIV tournaments cancelled, the name LIV dropped, P Mickelson reimbursing the Saudi sovereign fund, no teams, no shotgun starts, and 4 rounds, all tournaments to be guaranteed a minimum prize fund of €250,000.

 

[Jason.H]

Good to see Richard Bland going well again. Playing the golf of his life the last couple of years.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Good to see Richard Bland going well again. Playing the golf of his life the last couple of years.

And Ogletree, steady away with a 69 which while it's only mid table, it'll have laid a few ghosts to rest for him after his original LIV appearance.

 

[IJames]

And Ogletree, steady away with a 69 which while it's only mid table, it'll have laid a few ghosts to rest for him after his original LIV appearance.

Agreed! Whether through resolution of injury or the backing provided by the Centurion outing, he's had some performances that confirm his earlier potential. Wade Ormsby's recent performance has been solid too. Perhaps the comparatively massive funding LIV provides better returns at the lower end provides better returns for talented but financially pressed players at the lower end than simply making already wealthy but declining stars! Danny Lee performing well again, but Lopez-Chacarra under pressure for the next rounds!