LIV Golf

[Aztecs27]

I see Garcia has come out and said his friendship with McIlroy was was ruined due to Rory's lack of Maturity.....

says the man who's been seen on live TV snapping clubs and throwing them into lakes.

What a helmet.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Having watch 3 quarters of the Netflix thing, I cannot fault anyone for choosing another income source that means less work for more money. There is also how the PGA tour has acted in the past against the European Tour, scheduling events the same time as the flagship ET events, however if the Saudi golf league was 72 holes I might be more inclined to pay attention along with it being a more mature event and less party.

 

[BubbaP]

Watching Full Swing last night....

DJ was absolutely clear. "I had a great PGA career, now I'm off for more money to play less golf."

Totally respect his decision. Any of us with kids might do the same...especially if you're a Poulter or Westwood on the back 9 of their careers.

If DJ qualifies for a Major as a past winner, he should be allowed to play. He's resigned from everything else, so what's the issue?

I resigned from Credit Suisse to go elsewhere, but I want to go back in Fridays for pizza and donuts? Funnily enough I wouldn't get in the building. Maybe I should sue?

Not quite following your questions. Are you suggesting Johnson is suing someone?

 

[IanM]

Not quite following your questions. Are you suggesting Johnson is suing someone?

No need to pretend not to understand the reference....

 

[BubbaP]

No need to pretend not to understand the reference....

Whatever
No idea what you are attempting to communicate

 

[Swango1980]

I'm wary of dipping back into this thread, but here goes. All of the other tours currently co-exist. Players from the PGA Tour will sometimes come across and play in European Tour events, Asian Tour etc. Criss crossing happens a lot of the time in all directions. LIV would like the same scenario, for their players to be members of other tours where possible and for those who want to play more golf, to play more tournaments. DJ, and others, resigned to avoid a big fine from the PGA. They probably would not have resigned had that threat not been there.

I saw the same episode last night and it sounded as though LIV tournaments plus Majors is enough for DJ For others though, they like playing more and would do so if allowed. I suspect Patrick Reed is in that group, he has always played in a number of European events on top of PGA tournaments.

The PGA are not allowing this as they see the other tours as subservient, they see LIV as a threat. Interestingly, in this show a number of players have talked about the tours co-existing as the others already do. It's possible, the template is already there. I get your analogy but the current set up with the other tours shows that does not have to be the case.

Is it not true that the main tours (pre LIV) evolved organically? They started as geographical tours, and played by "local" golfers. Best Europeans generally on European Tour, best Americans on PGAT, etc. However, as golf really took off, and the money started flooding into the game, then the money flowed more naturally into the PGAT due to their market size. At this point, and with travelling becoming easier, the best players in the world generally aimed to make it to the PGAT. So, what started as primarily geographical tours, became tours more weighted towards the quality of the player.

All this seems perfectly organic and natural. I'm sure the other tours outside the PGAT would love to have the best players, but if they are to do that, they need to make their product more commercially attractive than the PGAT. That'll be difficult if the PGAT naturally has the biggest market. Therefore, there is bound to be an acceptance that they simply can't afford to keep the best European players, but they can make the best out of their product by offering a great platform to emerging taken, and hopefully putting on events to attract some of the best players on PGAT from time to time.

In other words, I think it is easy for the tours (before LIV) to work in harmony, as they aren't really in competition at all.

LIV comes along, and that is a very different story. As we have seen, it can offer the money to get a good number PGAT players to actually turn their back on the PGAT (or at least risk that, pending any legal battles). If players play on LIV, they must (as far as I know) play ALL the LIV events, unless injured. That doesn't leave a lot of room to fulfil their quota of PGAT events, let alone the additional some players played on DP World Tour.

For me, having one tour with all the best talent is a good thing. Maybe some would be happy for it being spread over 2 tours. What about 3, 4, 5, 6, etc tours, if other tours cropped up trying to entice good players with money. How many tours is just too many to work in harmony (when they are in direct competition for each other)?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

In other words, I think it is easy for the tours (before LIV) to work in harmony, as they aren't really in competition at all.

They work in harmony as long as they do what the PGA tells them to. The harmony is largely in the court of one of the parties, not with the others. The dice is very loaded in this 'harmonious' relationship.

 

[Beezerk]

LIV app downloaded, let’s see what all the fuss is about, besides it’s free golf so win win

 

[PJ87]

They work in harmony as long as they do what the PGA tells them to. The harmony is largely in the court of one of the parties, not with the others. The dice is very loaded in this 'harmonious' relationship.

It does seem all the other tours can co excist as long as they stay in their lane and allow the pga to be top dog

I mean make the DP world tour stronger by taking their best 10 players every year..

I still believe if dp world let Liv players play the tour would grow as players like reed would play to keep their ranking points afloat , which would make the field better

 

[PJ87]

LIV app downloaded, let’s see what all the fuss is about, besides it’s free golf so win win

Nothing is free. Did u see the terms and conditions? Saudi Arabia now own your soul

 

[PJ87]

I see Garcia has come out and said his friendship with McIlroy was was ruined due to Rory's lack of Maturity.....

says the man who's been seen on live TV snapping clubs and throwing them into lakes.

What a helmet.

I agree that Sergio is an idiot however I also make him right. Rory got very childish about it aswell and said his friendship with Sergio was over .. considering he was a groomsman at Sergio's wedding he can't put the "work" situation aside and just be mates..

 

[BubbaP]

Is it not true that the main tours (pre LIV) evolved organically? They started as geographical tours, and played by "local" golfers. Best Europeans generally on European Tour, best Americans on PGAT, etc. However, as golf really took off, and the money started flooding into the game, then the money flowed more naturally into the PGAT due to their market size. At this point, and with travelling becoming easier, the best players in the world generally aimed to make it to the PGAT. So, what started as primarily geographical tours, became tours more weighted towards the quality of the player.

All this seems perfectly organic and natural. I'm sure the other tours outside the PGAT would love to have the best players, but if they are to do that, they need to make their product more commercially attractive than the PGAT. That'll be difficult if the PGAT naturally has the biggest market. Therefore, there is bound to be an acceptance that they simply can't afford to keep the best European players, but they can make the best out of their product by offering a great platform to emerging taken, and hopefully putting on events to attract some of the best players on PGAT from time to time.

In other words, I think it is easy for the tours (before LIV) to work in harmony, as they aren't really in competition at all.

LIV comes along, and that is a very different story. As we have seen, it can offer the money to get a good number PGAT players to actually turn their back on the PGAT (or at least risk that, pending any legal battles). If players play on LIV, they must (as far as I know) play ALL the LIV events, unless injured. That doesn't leave a lot of room to fulfil their quota of PGAT events, let alone the additional some players played on DP World Tour.

For me, having one tour with all the best talent is a good thing. Maybe some would be happy for it being spread over 2 tours. What about 3, 4, 5, 6, etc tours, if other tours cropped up trying to entice good players with money. How many tours is just too many to work in harmony (when they are in direct competition for each other)?

Think the organically part is true to a degree, but perhaps acknowledging we may have 'western' views and trying to consider alternative viewpoints.
The USA PGA Tour set up in China.
The European Tour (as was) regularly held tournaments in Asia, and still is doing so. Both held tournaments in the Middle East.
The rule seemed to be 'just don't come on our patch', which might be viewed as a monopoly by some perhaps.
Certainly the commercial aspect was a big part. And that is what has changed/been challenged (albeit with the question marks over the money source etc.)

 

[Swango1980]

They work in harmony as long as they do what the PGA tells them to. The harmony is largely in the court of one of the parties, not with the others. The dice is very loaded in this 'harmonious' relationship.

Exactly, I was simply explaining WHY they currently work in harmony. There is one leading tour, and there is nothing much the others can do to compete with it. So, there is no big reason not to work in harmony.

It is why LIV cannot work in harmony. LIV is a direct threat to the PGAT. If billions of pounds were thrown into the DP World Tour, which encouraged the best players in the world to play more frequently there, I've no doubt the PGAT would not just sit back and say "no problem, we are all friends here". They would look at measures to discourage their members from abandoning their tour, or at least featuring on it significantly less. I'd expect the PGAT would have a bigger fight on their hands as well, because the DP World Tour already fits the criteria for full ranking points. And, it would clearly get more points as better players move across.

Now, that would have been a very intriguing battle. I'd have thought the best players would move to the DP World Tour in a heartbeat if it gave them significantly more money, whilst not providing a barrier to get ranking points and places in Majors. It is why I'm baffled LIV was set up the way it was. I know it wants a USP, but surely they could have thought of a USP that didn't oppose what is required for ranking points, or limit the ranking points that it could ultimately be awarded?

 

[cleveland52]

Golf can be an unpredictable game though.
Y.E.Yang, B Curtis, S Micheel, T Hamilton, M Weir, Z Johnson, D Clarke, etc....

Future gazing is hard, but could these definitely not win one in their career?
Niemann, Ancer, Gooch, Wolff, Pieters, Pereira, Varner, Chacarra

Or maybe at least have more of a chance than you!

Agreed..

 

[PJ87]

Seems to be on YouTube aswell

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Liv announce 4 players relegated from tour.
Four players promoted from Liv International Series (Asian Tour)

That equates to 8% of players.

Defo a stipulation asked for by and to satisfy OWGR in my opinion..

 

[ColchesterFC]

Liv announce 4 players relegated from tour.
Four players promoted from Liv International Series (Asian Tour)

That equates to 8% of players.

Defo a stipulation asked for by and to satisfy OWGR in my opinion..

Does OWGR require qualification for each event rather than for a whole season, eg Monday qualifying for a "normal" event starting on a Thursday?

Genuine question, I've got no idea.

Also, have they outlined the criteria for the four players to be relegated? I can't imagine that it would be the bottom four golfers in the LIV rankings as that runs the risk of LIV losing a player on a big money contract if, for example, Cam Smith or DJ was to have a shocker of a year and end up in the bottom four. Not saying that it will happen or is likely but it is a possibility.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Is anybody aware that The Universal Golf Rankings has been a system for some time and has been ranking Liv Golfers.
Works on a 1 year cycle rather than the 2 year cycle of OWGR.

Majors reported to be considering moving to this system if OWGR dont get their act together.

Has a mix of PGAT and Liv in the Top 50.
Without doubt a more accurate system for todays fractured golf world.

https://www.tugr.org/rankings

 

[PJ87]

Is anybody aware that The Universal Golf Rankings has been a system for some time and has been ranking Liv Golfers.
Works on a 1 year cycle rather than the 2 year cycle of OWGR.

Majors reported to be considering moving to this system if OWGR dont get their act together.

Has a mix of PGAT and Liv in the Top 50.
Without doubt a more accurate system for todays fractured golf world.

https://www.tugr.org/rankings

Shhh .. logic and sense aren't welcome here

 

[cleveland52]

Is anybody aware that The Universal Golf Rankings has been a system for some time and has been ranking Liv Golfers.
Works on a 1 year cycle rather than the 2 year cycle of OWGR.

Majors reported to be considering moving to this system if OWGR dont get their act together.

Has a mix of PGAT and Liv in the Top 50.
Without doubt a more accurate system for todays fractured golf world.

https://www.tugr.org/rankings

Any system that doesn't include my high school golf team is meaningless.....