LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

Curious - your repeated use of "LIV golfers", is it your belief that a number of individual players are somehow grouped into some single form of behaviour? A bit like stereotyping, or various 'isms ?
In case you missed it, I'm fairly sure it has been discussed on the forum how some are playing in various events across 4 or so tours - obviously not the PGAT. And some seem to be not playing much.
In case you missed it, believe most of the recent world ranking chat has been around the August 2022 changes. Unless you are suggesting some conspiracy, I don't think those changes relate to LIV starting up. I think a lot of people thought the system was flawed prior to 2022, that might even be why it was changed! Good luck with our prediction.
Are there really lots of "LIV fans" posting? Or perhaps mostly just some people who try to discuss things without heavy bias, conscious or unconscious.

This is a LIV thread, right!? If so, I hope I'm not being criticised for mentioning "LIV golfers", as I thought this would be the perfect thread to discuss them, even though it seems to have now moved away from LIV completely, and now focusing on more general golfing issues.

So, I was trying to push the topic back towards LIV. I am genuinely interested in what LIV golfers are doing on their off season. I know some played in Oz, I got that discussion on this thread. But, I haven't really picked up a lot on other events they are playing. Whether many LIV golfers are playing all over the world, or if it is just a handful of them

 

[Mel Smooth]

Poulter is being his usual modest self….

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598662845155004417

 

[Backsticks]

Is LIVism a thing.

Characteristics of a cult :

- The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
- The group is preoccupied with making money.
- Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
- The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
- The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
- Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

 

[BrianM]

Is LIVism a thing.

Characteristics of a cult :

- The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
- The group is preoccupied with making money.
- Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
- The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
- The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
- Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

Pretty much sums you up.

 

[doublebogey7]

So was the last PGA Tour event but we were told it got strong points because it was a full field, 72 holes and a cut and the criteria for getting strong points was because you had to beat more people.

Hero is an exhibition event, stupidly small field and no cut, you have to beat 19 people to win the Hero so that doesn't make sense based on what we were told last time out

The system is flawed, Rahm said so, Tiger said so, everybody says so, so it must be so ?

In no time at all becoming no1 on OWGR will be meaningless unless they do something about it.

No one said that the 72 holes and a cut were the only reasons for the number of points awarded in that PGAT event. Points are given in all events based firstly on the strength of the field with reductions for a lack of cut and for small fields. This weeks Australian Open barely has a handful of top 100 players and includes a number of players outside the top OWGR top 2,000, so it's plain to see why it had fewer ranking points, I suggest you try opening your eyes.

 

[cleveland52]

I suspect many agents have been taking about offers, but I don't think Rahm is going in the short term. Think he is just observant on how it has already, and likely will affect him in 2023, plus not towing the Jay media line.

Did make me smile though, I reckon if Mel S had posted your post, in his often "excited puppy dog style", then half a dozen or so posters would have been triggered and would have piled in

You're right, Rahm even doubled down on his commitment to the PGATOUR.

But, as we all know....all defectors do that right before the big announcement to LIV. LOL!

 

[Mel Smooth]

No one said that the 72 holes and a cut were the only reasons for the number of points awarded in that PGAT event. Points are given in all events based firstly on the strength of the field with reductions for a lack of cut and for small fields. This weeks Australian Open barely has a handful of top 100 players and includes a number of players outside the top OWGR top 2,000, so it's plain to see why it had fewer ranking points, I suggest you try opening your eyes.

As I said, or asked in the other thread - the DPWT championships had a field strength of about 121 - 21 points for the winner. This weekends hit and giggle at the Hero, field strength about 130 - 29 points for the winner with a SMALLER field - how come the winner is getting such a strong points total from a similair field rating, if small fields equate to less points?

*on the events I checked - the usual points for the winner is around 17% of the field rating, at the Hero that shoots up to 23%.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thought LIV Tour was supposed to be a “World Tour” ?‍ - majority of the events in the US again ?

 

[BubbaP]

View attachment 45419

Thought LIV Tour was supposed to be a “World Tour” ?‍ - majority of the events in the US again ?

I said last year (think you did also) I was disappointed to see so many in US. If that schedule is confirmed then I will be again.
As you have mentioned previously, with 3 majors in the USA and currently a big proportion of the cash + punters there also, it may be tricky short term to reduce but I think they should have tried.
The "World Tour" name is already taken ?, and they currently by % have the most spread. Unsurprisingly the PGAT not so much.

 

[doublebogey7]

As I said, or asked in the other thread - the DPWT championships had a field strength of about 121 - 21 points for the winner. This weekends hit and giggle at the Hero, field strength about 130 - 29 points for the winner with a SMALLER field - how come the winner is getting such a strong points total from a similair field rating, if small fields equate to less points?

*on the events I checked - the usual points for the winner is around 17% of the field rating, at the Hero that shoots up to 23%.

I'll say firstly that given the size of the field and that there does not seem to be a good sporting reason for it, then I don't think this event warrants the breaking of the OWGR standard rules and therefore should not get ranking points.
Now I am by no means an expert on the OWGR but as far as I can make out from reading the FAQs the field rating quoted for each tournament has already taken account of the field size and is the total number of points available for the tournament. It then stands to reason that the winner of a smaller field will receive a higher percentage of the total points available than the winner of a larger field size tournament.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

View attachment 45419

Thought LIV Tour was supposed to be a “World Tour” ?‍ - majority of the events in the US again ?

The reason the PGA Tour were so threatened by Liv was because they were playing in their back yard in their high season.

Maybe they have done it on purpose to maximise their disruption?
Maybe they have done it to help attract more US players which they are missing?

Who knows but they are defo targeting former PGAT/DPWT venues.

 

[BubbaP]

Just to close off on some order of merits

Sihwan Kim topped the Asian tour OOM.
Scott Vincent topped the International Series, which seems to have qualified him into the 2023 liv league.

 

[AussieKB]

Well worth a read, whether you are for or against LIV.

https://mygolfspy.com/liv-golf-why-the-saudis-care-so-much-about-golf/

 

[Bdill93]

Well worth a read, whether you are for or against LIV.

https://mygolfspy.com/liv-golf-why-the-saudis-care-so-much-about-golf/

So overall, unless they just get bored - its going nowhere

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well worth a read, whether you are for or against LIV.

https://mygolfspy.com/liv-golf-why-the-saudis-care-so-much-about-golf/

Did find this bit interesting

“But the goal of sportswashing, in this case, isn’t to convince people human rights violations as defined by groups such as Amnesty International don’t exist in Saudi Arabia. Instead, it’s to elevate the narrative that Saudi isn’t any worse than Dubai or China. And if you’re holding tournaments in and doing business with those countries then, hey, why not us?”

Human rights abuse etc is all ok because others do it just as bad then ?

It also shows that they will no doubt pull the plug at some point

 

[Bdill93]

Did find this bit interesting

“But the goal of sportswashing, in this case, isn’t to convince people human rights violations as defined by groups such as Amnesty International don’t exist in Saudi Arabia. Instead, it’s to elevate the narrative that Saudi isn’t any worse than Dubai or China. And if you’re holding tournaments in and doing business with those countries then, hey, why not us?”

Human rights abuse etc is all ok because others do it just as bad then ?

It also shows that they will no doubt pull the plug at some point

They have some what of a point though, why do people hate Saudi but happily see things happen in china and dubai? Selective much...

I think it shows they'll be in no rush to pull the plug. The funds are whopping to us average joe's but pocket change to them

 

[Swango1980]

They have some what of a point though, why do people hate Saudi but happily see things happen in china and dubai? Selective much...

I think it shows they'll be in no rush to pull the plug. The funds are whopping to us average joe's but pocket change to them

For those that throw the "sportswashing" argument about, I would love them to present us with a definitive list as to what countries we can play sport in, and which ones we cannot. Do we ban all sport from every Middle East country? What about African countries, or eastern Asia? Is South America OK, or do they have issues that make it not acceptable? And, is it all sport, or do we forgive the odd boxing match or Grand Prix? And, is it just sport, or are we talking all business?

I'm still a believer that going all over the world to play sport is, in the long run, more likely to improve humans rights issues, rather than promote abuse. I feel it is much better than turning the other cheek, and just letting other countries get on with whatever they want to do. It is unlikely they'll just say "please please sir, we have stopped doing bad things, can you come and play with us now". Expose nations that have strict regimes to our cultures, let their people see how we live our lives, and hopefully enough quite like the freedoms we have?

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like LIV and I don't think the World Cup should have gone to Qatar. But, both are for sporting reasons.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They have some what of a point though, why do people hate Saudi but happily see things happen in china and dubai? Selective much...

I think it shows they'll be in no rush to pull the plug. The funds are whopping to us average joe's but pocket change to them

I don’t “happily” see things happen in China or Dubai and many other feel the same , just look at the reaction to the Qatar World Cup amongst other things - people arent fans of human rights abuse regardless of what the country is and people aren’t fans of the rich countries using their money to try and sports wash

The worst thing Golf did or European Golf is jump into bed with Middle East money

 

[Backsticks]

I

The worst thing Golf did or European Golf is jump into bed with Middle East money

I am all in favour of it. Its just our own money that we gave them for oil, coming back to us.

The middle East and golf has been fine. And Saudi tournaments and money would have been fine too. Its the splitting of the tours top golfers that I have the problem with, degrading the elite golf competition product globally.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Did find this bit interesting

“But the goal of sportswashing, in this case, isn’t to convince people human rights violations as defined by groups such as Amnesty International don’t exist in Saudi Arabia. Instead, it’s to elevate the narrative that Saudi isn’t any worse than Dubai or China. And if you’re holding tournaments in and doing business with those countries then, hey, why not us?”

Human rights abuse etc is all ok because others do it just as bad then ?

It also shows that they will no doubt pull the plug at some point

Bear in mind, you’re quoting the opinion of a journalist there, rather than the opinions of the Saudis specifically.

It looks to me like the Saudis know they need to change, and their expansion into sports is part of that change.

It might take decades, or longer, but if they do change, that’s a good thing.

A few hundred years ago (long after golf was invented) people in my area were hung for trying to smash up machinery, if they were lucky, they were sent on a boat to Australia. 200 years - that’s nothing in the lifespan of humanity.