LIV Golf

[AussieKB]

I presume you tell her not to watch any LiV then? Oh, there isn’t any on.

Looks like the PGA tour and Rory are living rent free.

Rory lives rent free wherever he goes.....as for the PGAT they are becoming a joke, hope Rory see the light and backs off, have noticed he has changed tune a lot lately, hate to see the Ryder Cup become a casualty of all this.

And even in OZ we do have access to LIV.

 

[Backsticks]

So the PGA pushing for the Players Tournament to become the 5th Major and then not allowing some the best players play hurts that....
is that like cut off your nose to spite your face ?

No, its more like cutting a cancer off your nose so that your face survives.

The fifth major line is historical anyway. They do t actually push that line. 5th strongest tournament, yes, is a legitimate claim

 

[Ian_George]

...
The fifth major line is historical anyway. They do t actually push that line. 5th strongest tournament, yes, is a legitimate claim

In terms of Total Points allocated, The Players is actually 'stronger' than The Masters - 806 vs 780 - but that's because the field is 140 players cf 90 at The Masters and the allocation of 80 points to the Winner (vs 100 to Masters Winner).

 

[Deleted member 21445]

From what I have read under this new OWGR system that Rory says is fair and John Rahm says is laughable (how can they be so far apart) its going to be very hard down the line for anyone on any tour apart from the PGA Tour to get into the top 50 to qualify for the Masters ??

It seems another example of the "haves" getting more and the "have nots" being punished?

Apparently if Seve Ballesteros came on the scene in 2025 and played the majority of his golf on the European Tour which is what he did because he couldn't settle in the USA, had the results he had then he would struggle to get in the top 25 in the world under this new system.

Getting the balancing act right is tricky im sure but surely that can't be a fair system ?

In the past players like Tommy Nakajima and Jumbo Ozaki qualified for the Masters through the Asian Tour, plenty have qualified through the European Tour back in the day.
Its a real shame if that can no longer happen.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

No, its more like cutting a cancer off your nose so that your face survives.

The fifth major line is historical anyway. They do t actually push that line. 5th strongest tournament, yes, is a legitimate claim

Sadly the worlds best players will only come together in the majors now - Still in the new golf world a strong field but depleted from the past.

Still a GREAT PGA Tour event for sure, one I really look forward to and still do but cant be a 5th major if all the best players cant compete.

 

[cleveland52]

The world tour is irrelevant in itself to the LIV debate, other than as access to other tournaments which is harmful to the pgat.
But the same does not apply to the pgat. Of course having the 15 or so LIV players that are in the upper rank of world golfers would improve the field of A PGAT event. But letting them into pgat tour events would be short sighted. It would then appeal to more pgat player to go LIV. And every LIV tournament they play, would be a pgat event they would not play. So the PGAT would lose quality of field.
No amount of spin from LIVians will distract from this key point. The players know it, LIV knows it, the PGAT knows it, the media knows it, and fans know it. It seems LIV thinks people are stupid, but nobody is buying their line on this no matter how often they repeat it.
In short, the PGAT is not going to let them play : it would be winning that battle of having a better field for one tourny, but ensuring loss of the war for quality of fields in the future.

Besides, why would the pgatour let LIVers in their tournaments to recruit? That's what Phil was doing.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Karma is a bitch.

(I'm sure Rory won't actually be bothered tbh, headline is a bit sensationalist from the Golfmagic team but there's nothing new there.)

https://www.golfmagic.com/dp-world-...cond-round-pairing-dp-world-tour-championship

 

[Backsticks]

Sadly the worlds best players will only come together in the majors now - Still in the new golf world a strong field but depleted from the past.

Still a GREAT PGA Tour event for sure, one I really look forward to and still do but cant be a 5th major if all the best players cant compete.

5th major talk is a red herring. Even the PGAT hasnt pushed that line in years.

 

[Backsticks]

But they've lost quality of field from EVERY SINGLE event they hold, rather than a handful - they didn't need to - The DPWT events where LIV players are still taking part have better quality of fields in them - it's a fact. There is more interest in golf because of the existence of LIV - it's a fact. Why not capitalize on that interest by having those players involved in more tours?


Why is it OK for the PGA Tour to feel they have the right to host the premier golfing event of the week, practically week in, week out? They don't, any tour has the right to challenge that position, if that means weakening a few events then the PGA Tour has to deal/accept that, because every other tour around the world has played 2nd fiddle to the PGA Tour for years.
Indeed, the PGAT have actually weakened some of their own events by introducing the elevated status prize money - they've done to themselves, exactly what they (and you) are saying LIV should not do. They've incentivized players to pick and choose where and when they show up - to the detriment of all those events that aren't selected.

They have lost quality of field. But the extent of the loss is minimised by excluding LIV players. Its a simple concept. Are you really not understanding this point, or just repeating a bit of alternative facts type spon ?

 

[Deleted member 21445]

If indeed true, a blow to Liv for sure..

Others of course have said their not going only to u-turn later on but I think Xander will stay, not as sure about Cantlay..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593240054046113792

 

[Mel Smooth]

They have lost quality of field. But the extent of the loss is minimised by excluding LIV players. Its a simple concept. Are you really not understanding this point, or just repeating a bit of alternative facts type spon ?

Of course I understand the tactic of preventing players from leaving by banning them from the PGAT.

Are you not understanding the counter argument that the DPWT events, which include LIV players have not been negatively impacted by their presence - we've even got the PGAT self proclaimed spokesperson playing with a LIV player and potential Ryder Cup team-mate tomorrow - fantastic for the sports writers, fantastic for garnering interest in the event, and the game generally.

The PGA Tour could be producing exactly the same stories, if anyone of DJ, Bryson, Reed, Brooks etc had been allowed to play in the RSM this weekend, it would have stimulated a tonne of interest. But they are banned.

 

[cleveland52]

Of course I understand the tactic of preventing players from leaving by banning them from the PGAT.

Are you not understanding the counter argument that the DPWT events, which include LIV players have not been negatively impacted by their presence - we've even got the PGAT self proclaimed spokesperson playing with a LIV player and potential Ryder Cup team-mate tomorrow - fantastic for the sports writers, fantastic for garnering interest in the event, and the game generally.

The PGA Tour could be producing exactly the same stories, if anyone of DJ, Bryson, Reed, Brooks etc had been allowed to play in the RSM this weekend, it would have stimulated a tonne of interest. But they are banned.

The PGATOUR has enough storylines without these malcontents trying to recruit players.

Liv adds nothing to Tour events.....

 

[Mel Smooth]

The PGATOUR has enough storylines without these malcontents trying to recruit players.

Liv adds nothing to Tour events.....

Lol, it's added millions and millions of dollars to the purses, better securities for players and caddies, and changed the dynamic with the DPWT to protect itself - nothing then.....

 

[Backsticks]

Lol, it's added millions and millions of dollars to the purses, better securities for players and caddies, and changed the dynamic with the DPWT to protect itself - nothing then.....

No less than nothing. It has been negative. Millions to purses, securites, and caddies, means zilch to fans. We are not talking about the hungry poor of the world here. A richer Westwood ass nothing to golf. Nothing to the entertainment quality of elite world sport. Nothing. But has harmed the first division of world competitive golf. The product has not been improved. It has been disimproved. It is an indisputable fact.

 

[Mel Smooth]

No less than nothing. It has been negative. Millions to purses, securites, and caddies, means zilch to fans. We are not talking about the hungry poor of the world here. A richer Westwood ass nothing to golf. Nothing to the entertainment quality of elite world sport. Nothing. But has harmed the first division of world competitive golf. The product has not been improved. It has been disimproved. It is an indisputable fact.[/QUOTE]

Can you show me the stats that back up that fact.

 

[Ian_George]

From what I have read under this new OWGR system that Rory says is fair and John Rahm says is laughable (how can they be so far apart) its going to be very hard down the line for anyone on any tour apart from the PGA Tour to get into the top 50 to qualify for the Masters ??

It seems another example of the "haves" getting more and the "have nots" being punished?

Apparently if Seve Ballesteros came on the scene in 2025 and played the majority of his golf on the European Tour which is what he did because he couldn't settle in the USA, had the results he had then he would struggle to get in the top 25 in the world under this new system.

Getting the balancing act right is tricky im sure but surely that can't be a fair system ?

In the past players like Tommy Nakajima and Jumbo Ozaki qualified for the Masters through the Asian Tour, plenty have qualified through the European Tour back in the day.
Its a real shame if that can no longer happen.

Just remember that it DPWT's 'funny tournament' period, so limited field events abound! And it's that aspect that's making the points allocation 'so far apart'.

I'd be interested to actually see the reasoning behind the (apparently) significant weighting of field numbers over strength of players! I'm sure they've done research, but perhaps not enough. Looking at the first round leaderboard of DPWT Champs though, it's understandable how field numbers might have more influence than would seem warranted compared to ranking - I'm certain that'll become more 'normal' by the final round though.

 

[Backsticks]

Can you show me the stats that back up that fact.

Its not a stats thing. Its a fact : PGAT events are missing some top golfers, who, were it not for LIV, would have played events against the other top world golfers. They were not ejected, and joined LIV. They joined LIV and were then ejected to discourage a further deterioration in the level of competition at the top of world golf. LIV has harmed world golf competition. It was higher before they appeared on the scene. It is now lower. The product has been disimproved.

 

[Ian_George]

...
Are you not understanding the counter argument that the DPWT events, which include LIV players have not been negatively impacted by their presence.

At Golfer level, there's likely far less antipathy! At least, given the legal situation! And likely, personalities play a big part. Otaegui seems to have handled his 'punishment' very diplomatically!

 

[cleveland52]

Can you show me the stats that back up that fact.

I would go with common sense.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Its not a stats thing. Its a fact : PGAT events are missing some top golfers, who, were it not for LIV, would have played events against the other top world golfers. They were not ejected, and joined LIV. They joined LIV and were then ejected to discourage a further deterioration in the level of competition at the top of world golf. LIV has harmed world golf competition. It was higher before they appeared on the scene. It is now lower. The product has been disimproved.

No it hasn't, it's harmed a few make weight PGA Tour events, plus a couple of stronger events on their tour - avoidable by the PGAT, please do not lose sight of that - they had the choice regardless of what LIV, or LIV players did.
Come the majors, all those top players will play together, with added rivalry because of where they choose to play their golf - the competition on the world golf stage that matters (the majors) will be there as it was before.

And of course - The Ryder Cup has been affected - again, avoidable.

The DPWT has seen some events with stronger fields - BMW at Wentworth being the obvious one.

World Golf in the rest of the world has been bolstered by the introduction of LIV - The Asian Tour in particular of course.

World Golf isn't all about the PGA Tour, too many people have lost sight of that over the years.