LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

What if you took money away from all tournaments ??‍.

Why did the European players start jumping ship back in the day? Why did they stop playing in national tournaments, French Open, Dutch Open, Italian Open, Spanish Open etc to play in The John Deere Classic and so on. It's always the money.

The Europeans jumped across to gain their PGA tour card because it gave them a better chance to become a better player , also entry into Majors as the ranking points are higher on the PGAT ( at the time ) - three out of the 4 majors are on US soil so there is no better preparation playing those than playing in the US - it’s prob what stopped Monty from getting over the line - the lack of playing time on these courses

And yes playing in the US also gave them better financial security but it wasn’t the sole reason they went to the US

And because they have your cards on both they needed to play the minimum criteria

Those Europeans still came back for their home opens when they could by staying on the ET wouldn’t have improved them as players to the level they needed to challenge for majors etc

 

[hovis]

I understand every bit, it's why I can see why players move between tours and why I have no time for the hypocrisy of the PGA and the comments about liv money. If you check my post again you'll see I agree it's about money and pretty much has been for decades.

I'd love the know all the inside stories of the pga. Bet its is or has been worthy of Sepp Blatter

 

[BubbaP]

Can anyone explain how the sportswashing works in this instance? What is the end game for the Saudi's?

With Premier League / European football, you have enormous worldwide followings and media coverage of competitions, teams and increasingly so individual players. There are also riches to be earned from media, tv deals etc.

With golf I just don't get it. I can barely wrap my head around the PGA Tour being able to pay the purses they do... Even DP World tour purses are big compared to coverage it gets.

Is it to do with the demographic of the golfer?

I can't. But I have read about a desire to make Saudi a 'golf destination' which apparently has a lot of money attached around it. Although like you I can't wrap my head around the sums. Probably some generic 'business' angle also.

 

[hovis]

The Europeans jumped across to gain their PGA tour card because it gave them a better chance to become a better player , also entry into Majors as the ranking points are higher on the PGAT ( at the time ) - three out of the 4 majors are on US soil so there is no better preparation playing those than playing in the US - it’s prob what stopped Monty from getting over the line - the lack of playing time on these courses

And yes playing in the US also gave them better financial security but it wasn’t the sole reason they went to the US

And because they have your cards on both they needed to play the minimum criteria

Those Europeans still came back for their home opens when they could by staying on the ET wouldn’t have improved them as players to the level they needed to challenge for majors etc

Come on Phil. They went to pga tour for money and nothing else. Don't spout rubbish about becoming a better player and all that nonsense. Funny how the better european tour players only return for bigger Purse ET events. I can't blame them one bit but if it quacks like a duck and all that!!!!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Come on Phil. They went to pga tour for money and nothing else. Don't spout rubbish about becoming a better player and all that nonsense. Funny how the better european tour players only return for bigger Purse ET events. I can't blame them one bit but if it quacks like a duck and all that!!!!

How many players who play consistently on the European Tour have won a major ? In fact when was the last person to do so ? Maybe Lawrie in 99 ?

Europeans that went on to win a major after moving to the PGA

Molinari
Stenson
Rory
Rose
Stenson
Kaymer
Lowry

The prime aim for these golfers is to win majors - playing in the US gives them a better chance to do that

It’s fundamentally a harder tour , playing tougher courses and playing against the elite golfers in the game - hence why many Europeans don’t succeed over there

 

[Pin-seeker]

How many players who play consistently on the European Tour have won a major ? In fact when was the last person to do so ? Maybe Lawrie in 99 ?

Europeans that went on to win a major after moving to the PGA

Molinari
Stenson
Rory
Rose
Stenson
Kaymer
Lowry

The prime aim for these golfers is to win majors - playing in the US gives them a better chance to do that

It’s fundamentally a harder tour , playing tougher courses and playing against the elite golfers in the game - hence why many Europeans don’t succeed over there

Naive ?‍
I suppose they sign with the manufacturers because they make the best equipment rather than who offers the most money?
Or wear the watches they do because they like them the best?

It’s all about the ? ??

 

[hovis]

How many players who play consistently on the European Tour have won a major ? In fact when was the last person to do so ? Maybe Lawrie in 99 ?

Europeans that went on to win a major after moving to the PGA

Molinari
Stenson
Rory
Rose
Stenson
Kaymer
Lowry

The prime aim for these golfers is to win majors - playing in the US gives them a better chance to do that

It’s fundamentally a harder tour , playing tougher courses and playing against the elite golfers in the game - hence why many Europeans don’t succeed over there

Your list just proves the good players go to where the good money is. Those players went to the USA because they where talented enough to win big events. Why would top tier golfers who are capable of winning a major stay on the ET when they can go to America and fill their pockets?
You've made some good arguments on this thread about liv but this one is a bit too much. The sole driver for players to go to PGA from ET is money. Period!!!!

 

[IanM]

Professional sport is about money. Always has always been.

The issue with LIV is the source, motives and methodology of those dishing it out.

 

[Swango1980]

Same applies to any scenario mate. If there's no financial recompense, people won't participate.

Apologies. I'm not talking about players. I'm talking about fans. If you took money away from it, and you had the same playing fields, the Majors and big events would still be vastly more popular than LIV

Therefore, money is the only thing that can keep LIV alive. Fan interest is what keeps the other golf largely alive.

 

[BrianM]

Professional sport is about money. Always has always been.

The issue with LIV is the source, motives and methodology of those dishing it out.

The same source as the woman’s tour, the same source as thousands of companies do business with, the same source that fills up your car with fuel.
You’re better than that Ian, if we want to start going down the moral code route, it could be a rough ride.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

No. It’s all about better treatment for the caddies.

oh yes, forgot about the poor old caddies!!

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Last 24 Major Championships

12 Wins by PGA Tour Players
12 Wins by Liv Tour Players

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564638408416399369

 

[IanM]

The same source as the woman’s tour, the same source as thousands of companies do business with, the same source that fills up your car with fuel.
You’re better than that Ian, if we want to start going down the moral code route, it could be a rough ride.

Trade boosts the economy. Sponsorship of events supports the Tour, rather than trying to wreck it.

This is just a grubby self promotion exercise to the detriment of golf. That's my objection

I would have thought the difference was easier to distinguish.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

So much has changed..
It was dead in the water 6 Months ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564614009655025675

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Last 24 Major Championships

12 Wins by PGA Tour Players
12 Wins by Liv Tour Players

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564638408416399369

These are the winners on the PGA tour

Morikawa
Thomas
Rahm
Speith
Molinari
Tiger
Scheffler
Matsayama
Fitzpatrick
Woodland
Lowry

And these are the ones on LIV

Smith
Mickleson
DJ
BDC
Koepka
Reed
Sergio
Stenson

From the lists I’m guessing
Woodland , Woods and Molinari will prob not get near again

And Garcia , Mickleson, Reed , Stenson

It’s those 4 real big guns on LIV and two are unknown in regards future wins because of their injuries - BDC doesn’t seem to be affected by his as much as Koepka

 

[BrianM]

Trade boosts the economy.

This is just a grubby self promotion exercise to the detriment of golf.

I would have thought the difference was easier to distinguish.

It’s an industry I’ve been involved in for over 15 years Ian, The detriment to golf in your opinion, what’s your thoughts on the PGA now giving bigger purses?
What’s your thoughts when the big guns come and play in only the Rolex series events?
Do you think it’s right, let’s be honest, none of these guys are hurting and still want more.

 

[IanM]

Split sports are always poorer for being split.

Darts and Boxing being the obvious examples

 

[Backsticks]

Can anyone explain how the sportswashing works in this instance? What is the end game for the Saudi's?

I think it works like this : before LIV, we might have thought, Saudi - backwards misogynist dictatorship with a favouring of beheadings, ghastly. After paying Phil $250M, Saudi - lovely country, so generous to millionaire golfers, I might go there on a holiday to enjoy the sand and oil.
It has really changed my perception.

 

[evemccc]

I think it works like this : before LIV, we might have thought, Saudi - backwards misogynist dictatorship with a favouring of beheadings, ghastly. After paying Phil $250M, Saudi - lovely country, so generous to millionaire golfers, I might go there on a holiday to enjoy the sand and oil.
It has really changed my perception.

Don’t kid yourselves that many parts of the ME and South and West Asia are too different from Saudi Arabia in some regards

The footballers and holidaymakers enjoying Dubai and Qatar might not see it, or choose not to see it..

 

[Deleted member 1418]

These are the winners on the PGA tour

Morikawa
Thomas
Rahm
Speith
Molinari
Tiger
Scheffler
Matsayama
Fitzpatrick
Woodland
Lowry

And these are the ones on LIV

Smith
Mickleson
DJ
BDC
Koepka
Reed
Sergio
Stenson

From the lists I’m guessing
Woodland , Woods and Molinari will prob not get near again

And Garcia , Mickleson, Reed , Stenson

It’s those 4 real big guns on LIV and two are unknown in regards future wins because of their injuries - BDC doesn’t seem to be affected by his as much as Koepka

Surely the last 24 major winners were all PGA/DP World Tour players as they're the tours they all played on?

As it stands LIV only have 1 current major champion.