LIV Golf

[Oddsocks]

I just can’t believe people are losing their because some golfers haven’t said they are being greedy ?

Exactly. They have said it in a professional manor as to remain credible and profession.

Henrick could hardly say “ I lost a bucket load of cash and this is my opportunity to recoup it “ even though that’s exactly what he has done.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I just can’t believe people are losing their because some golfers haven’t said they are being greedy ?

Who is losing their ?

Can we not have a simple discussion now without resorting to this?

There is no credible reason for LiV golf to exist other than to try and improve the image of the Saudi Kingdom.

They have no interest in growing the game or any other such noble endeavours.

Greg Norman is only interested in sticking it to the PGAT.

The players are only interested in the money.

If they all came out and said this then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But when you read the press releases from the players that have been written by lawyers justifying their decisions, it reeks of embarrassment.

Call that losing my if you want.

I’ve often wondered how people fall for scams and hand over their life savings. Having read some of the stuff from the people posting regularly in support of LiV. I can now understand why.

 

[Blue in Munich]

If LIV are interested in growing the game, why not get young players on board that the youth will associate with rather than players that are reaching their end of PGA/DPWT shelf life?

If players, particularly American ones, want less travelling why sign up to a tour which means they will have to travel to Asia to gain world ranking points?

Too many things don't add up about the motives for me.

 

[Jimaroid]

Surely if you have thoughts on the source of money, the ethics behind it and with companies and people that in your own words “ engage in reputation laundering and sportwashing “ then this is double standards and hypocrisy of the tallest order.

Interesting. Would you also think a barrister representing a murderer is a hypocrite? The ability to look at and state facts does not align me for or against them and is not hypocrisy

I actually wrote "Yes there are plenty of individuals and businesses who are happy to engage in reputation laundering and sportwashing."

I might be one of them!

 

[Dando]

it seems that some of our "favourite" golf influencers have are also backed by the Saudi's given that their PR company who own shares in their platforms is owned by LIV Golf

 

[Oddsocks]

Interesting. Would you also think a barrister representing a murderer is a hypocrite? The ability to look at and state facts does not align me for or against them and is not hypocrisy

I actually wrote "Yes there are plenty of individuals and businesses who are happy to engage in reputation laundering and sportwashing."

I might be one of them!

In short, yes.

 

[Oddsocks]

it seems that some of our "favourite" golf influencers have are also backed by the Saudi's given that their PR company who own shares in their platforms is owned by LIV Golf

This was brought up yesterday , it certainly explains the new found trend on “ breaking news” podcasts.

 

[Mel Smooth]

If LIV are interested in growing the game, why not get young players on board that the youth will associate with rather than players that are reaching their end of PGA/DPWT shelf life?

If players, particularly American ones, want less travelling why sign up to a tour which means they will have to travel to Asia to gain world ranking points?

Too many things don't add up about the motives for me.

They’ve got a 15 year old on the player roster, they’ve signed Chacarra, they’ve got a 24 year old who came 11th at The Open……

Bryson has a strong youth following and is 28 years old. Hardly an old timer..

So to answer your question about signing young players up, they do.

Now if it turns out they’ve signed Smith up as well…..

 

[pokerjoke]

Exactly. They have said it in a professional manor as to remain credible and profession.

Henrick could hardly say “ I lost a bucket load of cash and this is my opportunity to recoup it “ even though that’s exactly what he has done.

He lost 5 million many years ago,his nett worth is £25 million so he’s already recouped much more.

 

[Oddsocks]

He lost 5 million many years ago,his nett worth is £25 million so he’s already recouped much more.

I was under the impression He’d lost more.

 

[Blue in Munich]

They’ve got a 15 year old on the player roster, they’ve signed Chacarra, they’ve got a 24 year old who came 11th at The Open……

Bryson has a strong youth following and is 28 years old. Hardly an old timer..

So to answer your question about signing young players up, they do.

Now if it turns out they’ve signed Smith up as well…..

Casey, Mickelson, Poulter, McDowell, Garcia, Westwood, Stenson, Kaymer, Bland, Howell III, seems like far more old farts than young bucks. Still, Westwood rocks a hoodie so that will sway "da yoof".

And it was 2 questions, the second of which you've sidestepped; why if you want to travel less sign up to a tour that will make you fly further away?

 

[GB72]

Casey, Mickelson, Poulter, McDowell, Garcia, Westwood, Stenson, Kaymer, Bland, Howell III, seems like far more old farts than young bucks. Still, Westwood rocks a hoodie so that will sway "da yoof".

And it was 2 questions, the second of which you've sidestepped; why if you want to travel less sign up to a tour that will make you fly further away?

My guess, and it is only a guess, would be that they would look to dip into the Asia Tour when needed to top up the ranking points rather than have to play a regimented number of events on the PGA Tour. That would be a stop gap and if, and it is a big if, LIV get ranking points then that would stop.

 

[rksquire]

“Golf has stagnated and viewing has become boring, they are trying something new to try and revive what is generally a boring TV sport. Have they got it right first time.. no, but at least they seem to be trying something different. It’s evolution and the sport needs to evolve to remain current as like it or not the traditionalists are dying off, it’s exactly the reason sports companies make golf gear and we done play in corded trouser and buttoned shirts.”

“Sport needs to evolve”.............

And the ET were looking for a better partnership with the PGA tour and they got it and will continue to work that way

Did they? I don't see it that way at all. The supposed 'strengthening of the alliance' was simply the PGA Tour protecting their own interests by making sure the DPWT didn't start discussions with LIV. The Barbasol and Barracuda was hardly a runaway success for the ET members. The '10' cards is interesting (I'd like to see the fine print as others have pointed out), if it actually is for those that don't have PGAT card, great, but that annually devalues the DPWT as those guys will go and play the PGAT because of money and ranking points. And then the same thing happens again the next year. Although not a great course this year, having access to the Scottish Open is much more beneficial to the PGAT (Xander in particular!) members.

I will say this though, the novelty factor of LIV is starting to wear off. I am absolutely not against it or what it's claiming it's trying to do for golf (I am of course against the human rights and sports washing, but I'm just as outraged with regard to F1, Boxing, Tennis, Newcastle and the World Cup in Qatar... yet I've still more than a passing interest in all of these); the sums of money or the fact they've went for the money does not annoy me. It's how the PGA Tour attract(ed?) the best players. But, whilst I can see the merit of 54 holes and a shotgun start for 2 days, there's something to be said about drama to be played out and potential winners coming up the stretch playing the same holes. If they do ever attract, say McIlroy (because this is what happened at the Open), crowds will flock to his group for all 18 holes. Regardless of who else is there and what hole the winner is likely to be on - it'll be a bit flat. Cantlay is not the stellar signing if it happens. Smith is close, not sure he is the 'one', and I hope he delays any decision until he defends the Claret Jug rather just waiting to collect a bucket load of cash after the Fed Ex Cup before going to collect an even bigger bucket of cash. Shuffler won't make a big difference despite his current standing. 2 or 3 of these guys together might do it, but McIlroy or Woods on their on would do it and that's not likely. The teams, albeit not properly established, may catch on but there's a lot of work to do there to capture the imagination. BDC is interesting, but not interesting enough; whilst I'd watch DJ all day long he's not enough on his own to make me tune in every day. I do think the model is unsustainable and really if it wasn't for the anti-LIV sentiment, and the odd LIV promoted 'shock' announcement, interest would dissipate. As I said, I'm not against it all, but my overall interest has waned.

I actually don't think anyone from LIV, the PGAT or DPWT has handled it at all well.

 

[Orikoru]

Bridgestone have been doing business in Saudi for years, they were proudly posting about their 70 year relationship a couple of years ago.

As I said earlier in this thread I think a lot of companies are getting out of expensive contracts with these players just now as it's easy to do now that they are no longer on the PGA Tour. I wouldn't be surprised to see the deals redone in a years time at a much cheaper rate.

Agreed. I doubt they've pulled out over any moral standing. It will simply be because the contract mandates he must be seen on TV broadcasts using the Bridgestone ball, and since he won't be playing PGA events now, the amount of times he's on TV is drastically reduced.

 

[Oddsocks]

I wish there was more factual information available rather that click bait internet articles and multiple forum assumptions. I think it’s very fair to say that ever contributor to this thread has made a certain amount of assumptions (including myself) a lot of which are influenced by personal views.

Hopefully as this model evolves more transparency is available (excluding contracts).

 

[Orikoru]

I just can’t believe people are losing their because some golfers haven’t said they are being greedy ?

Yeah this is confusing me as well. "LIARS WHY WON'T THEY SAY THEY'VE MOVED FOR MORE MONEY" - well they said it was a business or commercial decision which means exactly the same thing. It's as if some people don't actually know what a euphemism is.

 

[Oddsocks]

Did they? I don't see it that way at all. The supposed 'strengthening of the alliance' was simply the PGA Tour protecting their own interests by making sure the DPWT didn't start discussions with LIV. The Barbasol and Barracuda was hardly a runaway success for the ET members. The '10' cards is interesting (I'd like to see the fine print as others have pointed out), if it actually is for those that don't have PGAT card, great, but that annually devalues the DPWT as those guys will go and play the PGAT because of money and ranking points. And then the same thing happens again the next year. Although not a great course this year, having access to the Scottish Open is much more beneficial to the PGAT (Xander in particular!) members.

I will say this though, the novelty factor of LIV is starting to wear off. I am absolutely not against it or what it's claiming it's trying to do for golf (I am of course against the human rights and sports washing, but I'm just as outraged with regard to F1, Boxing, Tennis, Newcastle and the World Cup in Qatar... yet I've still more than a passing interest in all of these); the sums of money or the fact they've went for the money does not annoy me. It's how the PGA Tour attract(ed?) the best players. But, whilst I can see the merit of 54 holes and a shotgun start for 2 days, there's something to be said about drama to be played out and potential winners coming up the stretch playing the same holes. If they do ever attract, say McIlroy (because this is what happened at the Open), crowds will flock to his group for all 18 holes. Regardless of who else is there and what hole the winner is likely to be on - it'll be a bit flat. Cantlay is not the stellar signing if it happens. Smith is close, not sure he is the 'one', and I hope he delays any decision until he defends the Claret Jug rather just waiting to collect a bucket load of cash after the Fed Ex Cup before going to collect an even bigger bucket of cash. Shuffler won't make a big difference despite his current standing. 2 or 3 of these guys together might do it, but McIlroy or Woods on their on would do it and that's not likely. The teams, albeit not properly established, may catch on but there's a lot of work to do there to capture the imagination. BDC is interesting, but not interesting enough; whilst I'd watch DJ all day long he's not enough on his own to make me tune in every day. I do think the model is unsustainable and really if it wasn't for the anti-LIV sentiment, and the odd LIV promoted 'shock' announcement, interest would dissipate. As I said, I'm not against it all, but my overall interest has waned.

I actually don't think anyone from LIV, the PGAT or DPWT has handled it at all well.

Love this post. ???

 

[Mel Smooth]

Casey, Mickelson, Poulter, McDowell, Garcia, Westwood, Stenson, Kaymer, Bland, Howell III, seems like far more old farts than young bucks. Still, Westwood rocks a hoodie so that will sway "da yoof".

And it was 2 questions, the second of which you've sidestepped; why if you want to travel less sign up to a tour that will make you fly further away?

I didn’t answer that question because quite frankly, it’s a ridiculous one.

They already travel to play events on the PGA Tour, they are playing less 3 DAY events on LIV, and when they travel, LIV supply a private jet which looks like a flying nightclub.

I’m sure they can cope with one trip to Thailand and one trip to Saudi this year.

 

[ColchesterFC]

If players, particularly American ones, want less travelling why sign up to a tour which means they will have to travel to Asia to gain world ranking points?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and plenty of them.

 

[Marshy77]

If LIV are interested in growing the game, why not get young players on board that the youth will associate with rather than players that are reaching their end of PGA/DPWT shelf life?

If players, particularly American ones, want less travelling why sign up to a tour which means they will have to travel to Asia to gain world ranking points?

Too many things don't add up about the motives for me.

I agree with this. I understand the signing of popular players but to grow the game I'm surprised they haven't gone for influencer type YouTube stars or even created a comp to win to play type situation (pro golfers obviously).

It also wouldn't surprise me to see a pay x amount to play with Team Dollar etc.