LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

OK, fact boy. Which players diminish the majors by their absence?. You said that is a fact so there must be some irrefutable evidence, i.e. more facts, to substantiate it.

Happy to hear an opinion free but more specific response.

I like the way you chose the well known category of top 11. Every player aspires to get into the top 11. Obviously, though it was chosen in order to squeeze in Burmester and Ancer to bump up the apparent success of LIV players, even though neither one was ever in contention. And the numbers are wrong, because it is really 4 in the top 14, fact, because there were 4 at T11. Otherwise it would be 2 in the top 10, both T8 (DJ and BdC) and neither of them were really in contention, certainly not on the last day.

Actually I’d missed Burmester when I was having a quick glance this morning, so that’s 5 LIV players in the top 11 places (cos that’s what they are, even if they are tied - fact ?)

Even going by your means of measurement 5 of the top 14 suggests that the LIV golfers contributed to the event.

I know they weren’t challenging, but if you want to take that argument we could apply it to 90% of any last day field at any event.
Shall we tell anybody more than 5 off the lead that they’re irrelevant and to just hack it round on the last day?

 

[Ethan]

Actually I’d missed Burmester when I was having a quick glance this morning, so that’s 5 LIV players in the top 11 places (cos that’s what they are, even if they are tied - fact ?)

Even going by your means of measurement 5 of the top 14 suggests that the LIV golfers contributed to the event.

I know they weren’t challenging, but if you want to take that argument we could apply it to 90% of any last day field at any event.
Shall we tell anybody more than 5 off the lead that they’re irrelevant and to just hack it round on the last day?

That is some nice LIV maths there. The choice of top 11 is laughable. You are wrong that T11 is 11th - not a fact at all. 3 LIV players (plus another non-LIV) finished T11, they weren't all 11th. You are right on 5 out of 14, though. The Malaysian player I had never heard of before, and will never hear of again, is one of your mob.

Your argument is that LIV players being absent would diminish the event. Not this one, it wouldn't. The biggest contribution by a LIV player at the 2022 Open Championship was Poulter getting booed on the first tee. Or maybe DJ putting into a bunker, to be fair. Either way had no effect on the result.

As for telling anyone they're irrelevant, perhaps not. But I wouldn't tell them that their absence diminishes the event either. It very likely doesn't.

 

[Mel Smooth]

That is some nice LIV maths there. The choice of top 11 is laughable. You are wrong that T11 is 11th - not a fact at all. 3 LIV players (plus another non-LIV) finished T11, they weren't all 11th. You are right on 5 out of 14, though. The Malaysian player I had never heard of before, and will never hear of again, is one of your mob.

Your argument is that LIV players being absent would diminish the event. Not this one, it wouldn't. The biggest contribution by a LIV player at the 2022 Open Championship was Poulter getting booed on the first tee. Or maybe DJ putting into a bunker, to be fair. Either way had no effect on the result.

As for telling anyone they're irrelevant, perhaps not. But I wouldn't tell them that their absence diminishes the event either. It very likely doesn't.

You won’t hear of that Malaysian player again, cos he’s from Thailand ?

Credible 7 under yesterday, 24 years old, won twice on the Asian Tour, I think you might be disrespecting his ability a little.

 

[Backsticks]

As long as anyone, with any suggestion of being one of the worlds top 100 golfers is not in the open for a non golfing reason such as who pays them or what tour they play on, then the open would be compromised and devalued.
Someone would lift the jug. But we would all know they would not be an unarguable Champion Golfer of the year. It would be like winning a handicap troohy. The r&A will not dump 150 years of heritage and credibility for a commercial fight between to professional sports organisations. Zero chance.

 

[Ethan]

You won’t hear of that Malaysian player again, cos he’s from Thailand ?

Credible 7 under yesterday, 24 years old, won twice on the Asian Tour, I think you might be disrespecting his ability a little.

OK, whatever. If he plays on the LIV Tour, I won't hear of him again.

 

[Bdill93]

OK, whatever. If he plays on the LIV Tour, I won't hear of him again.

Unless you tune in to LIV... Which sounds unlikely

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You won’t hear of that Malaysian player again, cos he’s from Thailand ?

Credible 7 under yesterday, 24 years old, won twice on the Asian Tour, I think you might be disrespecting his ability a little.

It is a credible performance in his second major after missing the cut in his first

Looking at his career he has done well on minor tour but it does show that doing well on the Asian Tour doesn’t come with a lot of ranking points with him just creeping into the top 100 with that 11th place

But a long way to go for him - he could just as easily fade away and if Liv do get more people he would be one of the ones to miss out

 

[Pin-seeker]

Think the heat is getting to a few people ?
Calm down,put your phones down for 5 minutes & pour yourself a nice beer ??

 

[Imurg]

As long as anyone, with any suggestion of being one of the worlds top 100 golfers is not in the open for a non golfing reason such as who pays them or what tour they play on, then the open would be compromised and devalued.
Someone would lift the jug. But we would all know they would not be an unarguable Champion Golfer of the year. It would be like winning a handicap troohy. The r&A will not dump 150 years of heritage and credibility for a commercial fight between to professional sports organisations. Zero chance.

Tell me the genuine difference, to the value of the Championship, between a top 100 player missing it because of injury and missing it because he's unable to play due to a non golfing reason...?
The reason the player is missing it is completely irrelevant to the Championship.
I doubt the top 100 has ever played in any Major so are you saying every Major should have an asterisk by it?

 

[Ethan]

Unless you tune in to LIV... Which sounds unlikely

Yes it does.

If they get decent fields and do away with some of the annoying aspects, maybe. It's not just that I think it a vulgar spectacle with wealthy golfers hoovering up obscene pots of money for weak limited field events while sportwashing a corrupt and amoral regime, I also just don't like some of the players. There isn't a player who has gone over that made me think "Damn, I'll miss that guy". Don't like Mickelson, never have, can't stand Reed the cheater, Na and Perez are welcome to obscurity and i always thought BdC would get bored and quit when he realised his power game didn't work as well as he thought.

The next one will be a defining event though, at Trump Bedminster. I don't expect the fractious media coverage to be any less for that one, and gratuitous coverage of Trump lording over it might lose some support.

 

[RRidges]

The Saudis have put $400 million into The Asian tour already, all the LIV players need to do, assuming the bid for OWGR points is rejected, is co-ordinate enough Asian Tour events, when they can all play together in order to gain some OWGR points - The Open and The US Open, are already part of that tour.
Phil made a comment in an interview of the weekend when he was being questioned about LIV - parapharasing but it was something along the lines of "It will all become clear in a couple of years"

Maybe the plan is to grow The Asian Tour into something that rivals the PGA Tour, but that spreads itself across the globe - The Slaley Hall event this year was pretty much a low key event, but I'd imagine if it takes place next year, then could be much more relevant to world golf?

That would be my thoughts on why the Asian Money List winner was dropped from getting an automatic spot in The Open. Shame for Wade Ormsby, but he'll simply have to console himself with getting loadsamoney from LIV - and good luck to him.
BTW. Are you sure it's 400M? The number I've seen (and from LIV) has always been 300M. Still a huge bung though!
Oh and wrt to growing the Asian Tour....It seems to me more like a, fairly selfish, aggressive takeover than an altruistic attempt to 'grow' the Asian Tour. I wouldn't be surprised if, with so much more LIV involvement, it loses the auto-exemption for the winner of The Singapore Open - which was how Kaewkanjana qualified.

 

[Reemul]

A couple of posters on her a bit like the chuckle brothers double act, anyone posts anything not in full support of the PGA Tour and up they pop, chuckle chuckle chuckle.

It seems a real shame that anyone posts anything not in line is jumped on immediately. It's really like the thought police and being shouted down by the loudest.

i like the PGA, I don't mind the LIV Tour, I watch some DP Tour, I want the best players to play the Majors and don't care where else they play, whatever makes them happy. It's golf, I don't care if they earn loads or nothing at all, yet you see all those posts about footballers stealing a living, hypocritical to the last some.

I am certainly fed up with some of the stuck up posters on here who seem to think their opinion and their opinion only is correct or all that matters. They really are a little precious and makes me wonder if really they are lot more worried about the issue as they sure respond quickly and efficently, a bit like mumsnet......

 

[Bdill93]

A couple of posters on her a bit like the chuckle brothers double act, anyone posts anything not in full support of the PGA Tour and up they pop, chuckle chuckle chuckle.

It seems a real shame that anyone posts anything not in line is jumped on immediately. It's really like the thought police and being shouted down by the loudest.

i like the PGA, I don't mind the LIV Tour, I watch some DP Tour, I want the best players to play the Majors and don't care where else they play, whatever makes them happy. It's golf, I don't care if they earn loads or nothing at all, yet you see all those posts about footballers stealing a living, hypocritical to the last some.

I am certainly fed up with some of the stuck up posters on here who seem to think their opinion and their opinion only is correct or all that matters. They really are a little precious and makes me wonder if really they are lot more worried about the issue as they sure respond quickly and efficently, a bit like mumsnet......

BUT THEY DONT GET RANKING POINTS!!!!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549049204277972992

Fleetwood not going anywhere


Seen that Stenson going is prob getting the worst reaction - he has been given an honour within the sport but turning his back on it for the money , guess still needs to replace the Stanford money

If talk of Smith , Day , Matsyuma, Scott , Leishman , Cantlay all turn out to be true the question is - who misses out ? They wanted short fields and shotgun starts but surely must be close to being too many people ?

Also how does a player get on the LIV tour

If a player wants to play on the ET or PGA or indeed any other tour then they follow the qualifying process to enter into the tournaments and then also have a process to gain a tour card - so what’s the process for LIV , or is it a complete closed shop and invite only ?

Is that not like the private clubs that many are very critical about ? How is it growing the game and bringing it to the masses

 

[Bdill93]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549049204277972992

Fleetwood not going anywhere


Seen that Stenson going is prob getting the worst reaction - he has been given an honour within the sport but turning his back on it for the money , guess still needs to replace the Stanford money

If talk of Smith , Day , Matsyuma, Scott , Leishman , Cantlay all turn out to be true the question is - who misses out ? They wanted short fields and shotgun starts but surely must be close to being too many people ?

Also how does a player get on the LIV tour

If a player wants to play on the ET or PGA or indeed any other tour then they follow the qualifying process to enter into the tournaments and then also have a process to gain a tour card - so what’s the process for LIV , or is it a complete closed shop and invite only ?

Is that not like the private clubs that many are very critical about ? How is it growing the game and bringing it to the masses

Get invited - but you already know that!

By the looks of the current LIV field, they're taking big names or up and coming talent - so you want to tick at least one of those boxes to get an invite.

Who misses out? The lesser known players/ the ones shooting rubbish scores every tournament - so Mickleson may be for the chop soon

LIV do want to work alongside the PGA though don't they - so down the line maybe things could change and they cherry pick from there instead, depends if the PGA stick with their stance or budge if/ when players keep moving across. - That's the really interesting side of things here!

 

[Imurg]

Get invited - but you already know that!

By the looks of the current LIV field, they're taking big names or up and coming talent - so you want to tick at least one of those boxes to get an invite.

Who misses out? The lesser known players/ the ones shooting rubbish scores every tournament - so Mickleson may be for the chop soon

LIV do want to work alongside the PGA though don't they - so down the line maybe things could change and they cherry pick from there instead, depends if the PGA stick with their stance or budge if/ when players keep moving across. - That's the really interesting side of things here!

You may want to rephrase that....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Get invited - but you already know that!

By the looks of the current LIV field, they're taking big names or up and coming talent - so you want to tick at least one of those boxes to get an invite.

Who misses out? The lesser known players/ the ones shooting rubbish scores every tournament - so Mickleson may be for the chop soon

LIV do want to work alongside the PGA though don't they - so down the line maybe things could change and they cherry pick from there instead, depends if the PGA stick with their stance or budge if/ when players keep moving across. - That's the really interesting side of things here!

So can you not see the issues ?

Golf has had plenty of image issues over the years in regards snobbery , lack of inclusivity, closed shop , rich man’s game , doesn’t appeal to grass roots etc

So LIV Tour is

Invite only
Players playing just for the money
Closed shop

Where as I thought that the whole idea of LIV tour was - growing the game , opening it up to the masses , inclusivity

So is it not showing all the worst things about Golf ?

Lots of work are being done by various tours in regards pathways for careers and building the sport at grassroots levels

The PGA and DP are far from perfect and many have been critical about both tours - but at least there is a known pathway

LIv have taken plenty that are neither big name or upcoming talent but are happy to take a big load of money .

What’s the vision 5 years down the line ? How many play in each event - what happens to those “discarded” as you say ? Will it always be a closed shop invite only ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

So can you not see the issues ?

Golf has had plenty of image issues over the years in regards snobbery , lack of inclusivity, closed shop , rich man’s game , doesn’t appeal to grass roots etc

So LIV Tour is

Invite only
Players playing just for the money
Closed shop

Where as I thought that the whole idea of LIV tour was - growing the game , opening it up to the masses , inclusivity

So is it not showing all the worst things about Golf ?

Lots of work are being done by various tours in regards pathways for careers and building the sport at grassroots levels

The PGA and DP are far from perfect and many have been critical about both tours - but at least there is a known pathway

LIv have taken plenty that are neither big name or upcoming talent but are happy to take a big load of money .

What’s the vision 5 years down the line ? How many play in each event - what happens to those “discarded” as you say ? Will it always be a closed shop invite only ?

You'll just have to keep watching to find out Phil?

But when you have to pay 6500 dollars out to just attempt to qualify for the KFT, the PGA can't be taken seriously as bastions of pathways and growing the game.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You'll just have to keep watching to find out Phil?

But when you have to pay 6500 dollars out to just attempt to qualify for the KFT, the PGA can't be taken seriously as bastions of pathways and growing the game.

Why do you just ignore most parts of peoples posts ?

“Have to keep watching” ? Is that code for that you/they don’t have a clue

Are entry fees not part and parcel of the game below the tours ? How else do they get funding ?

You pay to enter pro ams , junior tours etc.

What is LIV Tour pathway ? You’re critical of the other tours but how does someone qualify to play on the LIV tour ?

 

[Bdill93]

So can you not see the issues ?

Golf has had plenty of image issues over the years in regards snobbery , lack of inclusivity, closed shop , rich man’s game , doesn’t appeal to grass roots etc

So LIV Tour is

Invite only
Players playing just for the money
Closed shop

Where as I thought that the whole idea of LIV tour was - growing the game , opening it up to the masses , inclusivity

So is it not showing all the worst things about Golf ?

Lots of work are being done by various tours in regards pathways for careers and building the sport at grassroots levels

The PGA and DP are far from perfect and many have been critical about both tours - but at least there is a known pathway

LIv have taken plenty that are neither big name or upcoming talent but are happy to take a big load of money .

What’s the vision 5 years down the line ? How many play in each event - what happens to those “discarded” as you say ? Will it always be a closed shop invite only ?

Oh there's loads of questions but give it time and I'm sure they'll be answered (one way or another). They've hosted 2 events so far, its not like this has been the case for 10 years - things can change in a second because its privately owned.

I suspect - although obviously just making spitball guesses here - that the LIV tour are doing their best to get OGWR points. That would be the single biggest game changer in this debate.

Without them its hard to put "qualifying criteria" out there - but I have no doubt they're working on it. If they fail, I suspect in time that the whole LIV tour will fail - but money talks doesn't it...