LIV Golf

[AddisonRoad]

I also firmly believe that the LIV players will begin performing worse in the majors (if they are allowed to continue playing in them). While they've only just switched, after months/years of playing silly 54 hole events with no real motivation, their performances will begin to suffer. So far, most players going to LIV are clearly the players that don't enjoy golf to the full extent - their practice and performance will suffer with guaranteed money and shorter events. The margins are too thin in majors.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I have no issues with future fields missing the odd player who could have challenged for the title. It won’t matter a jolt to the winner that DJ etc wasn’t playing and it won’t make a difference to how the winner is perceived

As soon as the first ball is hit the fact someone isn’t there won’t matter to anyone apart from those who would want to make it an issue

And if someone isn’t there imo it means they don’t really care enough about the major to be there - they have made a choice

So let’s get this straight, it’s the players choice not to be able to qualify for majors, even though others are making changes that prevent them from qualifying, and you’ve already said you’d be happy to see further changes to make it more difficult for them to qualify? All those LIV players will want to play in all the majors, some still want to play tour events, but they’ve been denied that by the governing bodies of the tours.
The Tours are desperately trying every angle they can find to a way to see off the LIV series, and all it will do is diminish their appeal, to spectators and investors alike.

What did Sergio say - The DP tour will be the 5th rated in the world?
He’s probably correct.

 

[Ethan]

So let’s get this straight, it’s the players choice not to be able to qualify for majors, even though others are making changes that prevent them from qualifying, and you’ve already said you’d be happy to see further changes to make it more difficult for them to qualify? All those LIV players will want to play in all the majors, some still want to play tour events, but they’ve been denied that by the governing bodies of the tours.
The Tours are desperately trying every angle they can find to a way to see off the LIV series, and all it will do is diminish their appeal, to spectators and investors alike.

What did Sergio say - The DP tour will be the 5th rated in the world?
He’s probably correct.

Wrong. They were told the consequences for PGA Tour and DP World Tour membership, and chose to risk it as part of whoring themselves to the LIV Tour.

Few of them will be missed, maybe Kopeka, DJ and BdC, the last largely as a sideshow. Most of the rest will not be missed and will not diminish the majors.

 

[Backsticks]

It doesn’t have to change at all and it won’t change

If a player doesn’t qualify then they just don’t play - doesn’t matter what their name is

They won’t change the qualifying to ensure that players who have left to go play on the LIV still get a route in

They have to, and will change the qualifying process. Their goal is to ensure the worlds best golfers are in the Open field. They have no interest in the Open becoming a second class tournament, which it would if some of the worlds best golfers are excluded becaus3 of who their employer is. Even if the owgr didnt change, the R&A would have to have an LIV category if owgr didnt catch those golfers. Maybe too 10 on the Saudi tour. Or any Saudi winners. Or run their own parallel rankings giving points to LIV events even if the owgr committee as a whole doesnt.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Wrong. They were told the consequences for PGA Tour and DP World Tour membership, and chose to risk it as part of whoring themselves to the LIV Tour.

Few of them will be missed, maybe Kopeka, DJ and BdC, the last largely as a sideshow. Most of the rest will not be missed and will not diminish the majors.

Of course it will diminish them, majors are about the best golfers in the world competing together, if you take some of those players away, the quality of the event is weakened. That’s undeniable.

As I said earlier, having golfers from LIV and the other tours competing together added some juice to The Open.

 

[Orikoru]

They have to, and will change the qualifying process. Their goal is to ensure the worlds best golfers are in the Open field. They have no interest in the Open becoming a second class tournament, which it would if some of the worlds best golfers are excluded becaus3 of who their employer is. Even if the owgr didnt change, the R&A would have to have an LIV category if owgr didnt catch those golfers. Maybe too 10 on the Saudi tour. Or any Saudi winners. Or run their own parallel rankings giving points to LIV events even if the owgr committee as a whole doesnt.

Agreed. More will continue to join LIV until enough have joined that excluding them from majors and even PGA events would be tantamount to shooting themselves in the foot and weakening the fields substantially.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So let’s get this straight, it’s the players choice not to be able to qualify for majors, even though others are making changes that prevent them from qualifying, and you’ve already said you’d be happy to see further changes to make it more difficult for them to qualify? All those LIV players will want to play in all the majors, some still want to play tour events, but they’ve been denied that by the governing bodies of the tours.
The Tours are desperately trying every angle they can find to a way to see off the LIV series, and all it will do is diminish their appeal, to spectators and investors alike.

What did Sergio say - The DP tour will be the 5th rated in the world?
He’s probably correct.

1. The only people right now making the changes are LIV Tour and the players themselves

2. By removing themselves from the tours they are removing themselves from some of the ways that allow them to gain qualification to the majors

If the players want to play in the majors and some tour events they are more than welcome to providing they abide by those majors and tour events entry rules and criteria

Players are being denied because they are breaking terms of the membership criteria of the tour

The players knew there would be some consequences of them moving to a new tour because of the financial rewards on offer

Do you really think the tours and majors should just do nothing and let the players do what ever they want ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They have to, and will change the qualifying process. Their goal is to ensure the worlds best golfers are in the Open field. They have no interest in the Open becoming a second class tournament, which it would if some of the worlds best golfers are excluded becaus3 of who their employer is. Even if the owgr didnt change, the R&A would have to have an LIV category if owgr didnt catch those golfers. Maybe too 10 on the Saudi tour. Or any Saudi winners. Or run their own parallel rankings giving points to LIV events even if the owgr committee as a whole doesnt.

They don’t have too at all

Their “goal” is to provide the best golf comp in the world and crown the champion golfer - who that is or who enters won’t be a “goal”

The Open won’t become a second class tournament because of a few players missing out

They won’t change their qualifying criteria to allow winners of the LIV tour events entry into the Open , just as the Masters won’t or US Open

The R&A won’t bow down to the money of LiV just as the PGA tour won’t , Dp tour etc won’t

They aren’t going to change things based on 48 golfers

 

[Backsticks]

Agreed. More will continue to join LIV until enough have joined that excluding them from majors and even PGA events would be tantamount to shooting themselves in the foot and weakening the fields substantially.

That more will join LIV is a possibility but not a certainty.

At the moment we have uncontaminated ranking : the owgr, and majors winners that have all come from unrestricted fields. Thats why LIV only has a limited window to attract players. They cannot mint their own currency of valuable players. Young prospects have no value unless measured again a significant number of clearly worlds best. That the moment they are Sheff, Rahm, Rory, Thomas etc. It isnt Phil, Poulter, Garcia. So no one can acquire golfing rating playing against them.

But for the majors, and the open in particular, yes, there is no way they will shoot themselves in the foot, if say even 10 of the current top 30 threw their lot in with Saudi.

 

[Backsticks]

1. The only people right now making the changes are LIV Tour and the players themselves

2. By removing themselves from the tours they are removing themselves from some of the ways that allow them to gain qualification to the majors

If the players want to play in the majors and some tour events they are more than welcome to providing they abide by those majors and tour events entry rules and criteria

Players are being denied because they are breaking terms of the membership criteria of the tour

The players knew there would be some consequences of them moving to a new tour because of the financial rewards on offer

Do you really think the tours and majors should just do nothing and let the players do what ever they want ?

The R&A has no concern for the rules of the tours. They need the best golfers. If the system currently used as the selection filter is no longer effective, they will change the system to ensure they capture them.

The R&A isnt 'bowing'. It doesnt care. It used the owgr and tours as it was a sensible access system.

 

[Backsticks]

They aren’t going to change things based on 48 golfers

Think this one through. Say the worlds top 48 went Saudi. Would the r&A simply say : they made their choice, so no Open for them. NO chance. Why would they. Why are people mixing up the goals of the pro tours and the R&A ? They are vastly different bodies.

 

[BubbaP]

Genuinely wish I had the ability some others seem to have to be certain what will happen in future ?
History may show that when large sums of money are involved, previously improbable events can become more probable

 

[Imurg]

Think this one through. Say the worlds top 48 went Saudi. Would the r&A simply say : they made their choice, so no Open for them. NO chance. Why would they. Why are people mixing up the goals of the pro tours and the R&A ? They are vastly different bodies.

By the time the next Open comes around they won't be in the top 48 because their World Ranking will have dropped so they will no longer be "the best in the world"

 

[Mel Smooth]

By the time the next Open comes around they won't be in the top 48 because their World Ranking will have dropped so they will no longer be "the best in the world"

That’s actually quite funny, almost chortled at that.

 

[Backsticks]

They aren’t going to change things based on 48 golfers

Think this one through. Say the worlds top 48 went Saudi. Would the r&A simply say : they made their choice, so no Open for them. NO chance. Why would they. Why are people mixing up the goals of the pro tours and the R&A ? They are vastly different bodies.

By the time the next Open comes around they won't be in the top 48 because their World Ranking will have dropped so they will no longer be "the best in the world"

They still will be, predominantly. Just the measure currently in use, the owgr, wont reflect it. And so it, if unmodified to the new reality, will have no credibility.
Owgr deesnt define best in the world. It reflects it in a systematic manner. Majors won up to now, and the owgr, up to now, set the pecking order.but distort either, and their foundation is gone.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Think this one through. Say the worlds top 48 went Saudi. Would the r&A simply say : they made their choice, so no Open for them. NO chance. Why would they. Why are people mixing up the goals of the pro tours and the R&A ? They are vastly different bodies.

The R&A won’t change their qualfiying criteria to enable LiV golfers to enter via LIV competitions - of that I’m very sure about.

The R&A are very linked in with the PGA of America , The Masters and the USGA - and those governing bodies very much work closely with the two main tour operators - PGA Tour and DP World tour along with Japan Tour , Asia Pacific and Sunshine Tour

The LIV Tour Right now isn’t part of that and until it is then they won’t be treated the same way as the other tours

 

[Ethan]

Of course it will diminish them, majors are about the best golfers in the world competing together, if you take some of those players away, the quality of the event is weakened. That’s undeniable.

As I said earlier, having golfers from LIV and the other tours competing together added some juice to The Open.

So the absence of which golfers will diminish majors?

For the short to medium term the absence of Koepka, BdC, DJ would diminish the majors. Koepka missed the 2020 US Open won by BdC and the 2018 Masters win by Reed. Bryson missed this year's PGA. DJ missed the 2017 Masters. Were those events diminished?

Who else?

Would losing Westwood, Na, Branden Grace etc really diminish the majors?

 

[Mel Smooth]

So the absence of which golfers will diminish majors?

For the short to medium term the absence of Koepka, BdC, DJ would diminish the majors. Koepka missed the 2020 US Open won by BdC and the 2018 Masters win by Reed. Bryson missed this year's PGA. DJ missed the 2017 Masters. Were those events diminished?

Who else?

Would losing Westwood, Na, Branden Grace etc really diminish the majors?

Ok, you’re dealing in opinion, I’m dealing in facts.
If some of the best players in the world, are denied entry to an event, then the quality of the field in that event is diminished, that’s a fact. 4 LIV players in the top 11 places at The Open, proof that these players are world class, challenging for top positions on an iconic golf course in an iconic event.
Fine if you want to see the back of them, but putt an asterix against cyber name of any future champions.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok, you’re dealing in opinion, I’m dealing in facts.
If some of the best players in the world, are denied entry to an event, then the quality of the field in that event is diminished, that’s a fact. 4 LIV players in the top 11 places at The Open, proof that these players are world class, challenging for top positions on an iconic golf course in an iconic event.
Fine if you want to see the back of them, but putt an asterix against cyber name of any future champions.

“put an asterisk” - do you think that should happen for any major when someone from the top 50 can’t play ?

And where people finish in a single major doesn’t make someone “World class”

And again no one is being “denied” access - if they don’t qualify then they don’t qualify- doesn’t demean the event or the perception of the winner

 

[Ethan]

Ok, you’re dealing in opinion, I’m dealing in facts.
If some of the best players in the world, are denied entry to an event, then the quality of the field in that event is diminished, that’s a fact. 4 LIV players in the top 11 places at The Open, proof that these players are world class, challenging for top positions on an iconic golf course in an iconic event.
Fine if you want to see the back of them, but putt an asterix against cyber name of any future champions.

OK, fact boy. Which players diminish the majors by their absence?. You said that is a fact so there must be some irrefutable evidence, i.e. more facts, to substantiate it.

Happy to hear an opinion free but more specific response.

I like the way you chose the well known category of top 11. Every player aspires to get into the top 11. Obviously, though it was chosen in order to squeeze in Burmester and Ancer to bump up the apparent success of LIV players, even though neither one was ever in contention. And the numbers are wrong, because it is really 4 in the top 14, fact, because there were 4 at T11. Otherwise it would be 2 in the top 10, both T8 (DJ and BdC) and neither of them were really in contention, certainly not on the last day.