LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

He had a bad week so should be paying them? Tough crowd.

I really don’t get this line of thinking. They are part of the event, they should receive something even if they play crap. Other non team sports get paid for making it to the main event (tennis, darts, snooker etc) why does golf have to be different?

You don’t see other sports saying “sorry you played crap and got knocked out at the first round so you get nothing. Thanks for coming though.”

Maybe it'd be more difficult to pay out every place at the low level tour events, but I'd have thought it would be easier on the PGA Tour. Not sure how many miss the cut normally, is it about 70? If all 70 players got $5,000, that would be a total of $350,000. The top 3 places got $1,566,000, $948,300 and $600,300. So, I'm pretty sure the prize money for all places that made the cut could be found to supplement the $350,000. Sure, $5,000 is nothing to a big player who misses the cut. But, it could probably help those that are struggling to stay on the PGA Tour. However, they are still playing in the biggest professional golf tour in the world, so you'd think there'd be some sort of compensation to getting to that point?

Have there any been any cases of a player qualifying for the PGA Tour, and then never making the cut? I think it is harsh to have the ability to qualify for the biggest tour in the world, and then get paid absolutely nothing for being there. At least if they got paid about $5,000 for missing a cut, they'd at least get $100,000 to $150,000 for the year, before being demoted back to a lower tour.

 

[GB72]

This is what I do not get. Professional Sport is entertainment, that simple and that is often forgotten. Yes, at the end of the day a winner is crowned to add to the drama but it is a form of entertainment. In other forms of entertainment, everyone adds to the overall event and even the lowest extra in a film, for example, gets paid so logic dictates that everyone involved in making the event what it is should receive some form of recompense.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is what I do not get. Professional Sport is entertainment, that simple and that is often forgotten. Yes, at the end of the day a winner is crowned to add to the drama but it is a form of entertainment. In other forms of entertainment, everyone adds to the overall event and even the lowest extra in a film, for example, gets paid so logic dictates that everyone involved in making the event what it is should receive some form of recompense.

Are they there to entertain? Or are they there to compete and the entertainment is a consequence of players and teams competing ?

When someone enters a competition I suspect their goal is to win and compete as opposed to “entertaining” people - it’s all about winning

Trying to compare to film making ?

If a player is constantly missing the cut in a “Competition” why should they be rewarded for not reaching the standards required ?

If a footballer doesn’t reach a standard required he is let go

If any sportsman doesn’t reach the required standard needed to compete they don’t get the rewards

All this just being given money to turn up appears to be a new thing because a state are willing to just get people there

Golfers on the pro tour get well paid , they earn a good amount of money , and they also are able to add their own sponsors all over their clothes and bags to supplement their income

 

[Mel Smooth]

Are they there to entertain? Or are they there to compete and the entertainment is a consequence of players and teams competing ?

When someone enters a competition I suspect their goal is to win and compete as opposed to “entertaining” people - it’s all about winning

Trying to compare to film making ?

If a player is constantly missing the cut in a “Competition” why should they be rewarded for not reaching the standards required ?

If a footballer doesn’t reach a standard required he is let go

If any sportsman doesn’t reach the required standard needed to compete they don’t get the rewards

All this just being given money to turn up appears to be a new thing because a state are willing to just get people there

Golfers on the pro tour get well paid , they earn a good amount of money , and they also are able to add their own sponsors all over their clothes and bags to supplement their income

But Phil, they are the best in the world - the top point something percent of golfers - the footballers that play at that level play at your PSG's, Real Madrids, Barcelonas, some are even prepared to go to Liverpool....

They all get guaranteed payments that are eye watering, and bonuses if they play well, plus the endorsements that you talk about beig the "bread and butter" for golfers.

Why should the world's best golfers be given a comparative raw deal by the body that controls them - I know the scaling of finance is different in football, but even so, the players that are good enough to compete on global tours should be getting paid for being there.

 

[Ethan]

Good for Jediah Morgan, he's one of the lucky one's that got an opportunity when the LIV was starting out, there are plenty more like him, but he still contributed to the event at Centurion, he was part of the 48 man field that turned out for 3 days, and he quite rightly got paid for it.

He truly is part of the Who's That of golf.

 

[GB72]

Are they there to entertain? Or are they there to compete and the entertainment is a consequence of players and teams competing ?

When someone enters a competition I suspect their goal is to win and compete as opposed to “entertaining” people - it’s all about winning

Trying to compare to film making ?

If a player is constantly missing the cut in a “Competition” why should they be rewarded for not reaching the standards required ?

If a footballer doesn’t reach a standard required he is let go

If any sportsman doesn’t reach the required standard needed to compete they don’t get the rewards

All this just being given money to turn up appears to be a new thing because a state are willing to just get people there

Golfers on the pro tour get well paid , they earn a good amount of money , and they also are able to add their own sponsors all over their clothes and bags to supplement their income

Agreed and a footballer is paid until they let go in a same way a PGA tour member should be paid until they lose their tour card. It may be about winning to those taking part but the fnancial side of it is all about the entertainment and the number of people wathcing. If it were only all about the winning, we could simply return to amateur sport. Amazing how it becomes all about the winning only once you have enough money to not worry about putting food on the table for the rest of your life.

I guess the comparitive would be footballers only getting paid if they finish high enough in the league. Shoudl players for relegated premiership sides not get paid. They have, after all 'missed the cut' and so were not up to standard and so do not deserve any wages.

 

[Swango1980]

Are they there to entertain? Or are they there to compete and the entertainment is a consequence of players and teams competing ?

When someone enters a competition I suspect their goal is to win and compete as opposed to “entertaining” people - it’s all about winning

Trying to compare to film making ?

If a player is constantly missing the cut in a “Competition” why should they be rewarded for not reaching the standards required ?

If a footballer doesn’t reach a standard required he is let go

If any sportsman doesn’t reach the required standard needed to compete they don’t get the rewards

All this just being given money to turn up appears to be a new thing because a state are willing to just get people there

Golfers on the pro tour get well paid , they earn a good amount of money , and they also are able to add their own sponsors all over their clothes and bags to supplement their income

Are you telling me Paul Pogba didn't get paid at Man Utd, or Phil Jones!?

Footballers get paid, even if they are pants. Of course, they harm their future chances at getting good contracts. You could still pay a golfer for missing cuts. However, if they keep failing to play well, they will not be on the best professional tour for much longer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But Phil, they are the best in the world - the top point something percent of golfers - the footballers that play at that level play at your PSG's, Real Madrids, Barcelonas, some are even prepared to go to Liverpool....

They all get guaranteed payments that are eye watering, and bonuses if they play well, plus the endorsements that you talk about beig the "bread and butter" for golfers.

Why should the world's best golfers be given a comparative raw deal by the body that controls them - I know the scaling of finance is different in football, but even so, the players that are good enough to compete on global tours should be getting paid for being there.

Which one of the worlds best golfers is getting a “raw deal” ?

If they are one of the worlds best golfers they will be earning millions from endorsements alone plus millions from performances on the course in the tournaments ?

Which one of those golfers you are talking about is getting the raw deal ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Are you telling me Paul Pogba didn't get paid at Man Utd, or Phil Jones!?

Footballers get paid, even if they are pants. Of course, they harm their future chances at getting good contracts. You could still pay a golfer for missing cuts. However, if they keep failing to play well, they will not be on the best professional tour for much longer.

Maybe you should take a step back and read what you highlighted ?

 

[Ethan]

But Phil, they are the best in the world - the top point something percent of golfers - the footballers that play at that level play at your PSG's, Real Madrids, Barcelonas, some are even prepared to go to Liverpool....

They all get guaranteed payments that are eye watering, and bonuses if they play well, plus the endorsements that you talk about beig the "bread and butter" for golfers.

Why should the world's best golfers be given a comparative raw deal by the body that controls them - I know the scaling of finance is different in football, but even so, the players that are good enough to compete on global tours should be getting paid for being there.

Is that player for Barca able to go and play for Athletico as well. Under your view of his golf should work, they would.Does a golfer get fined if they are late for training? The footballer does.

This is the central issue here. The LIV golfers whine on about being independent contractors, usually overlooking the contract part, and want to be able to move freely between events, but they also compare themselves against employees for teams.

Do they want to be employees of the PGA Tour? Told which events to turn up for and when to train, and even what to eat? Sounds a bit like the LIV Tour has a stricter idea on determining who will turn up.

 

[Ethan]

Agreed and a footballer is paid until they let go in a same way a PGA tour member should be paid until they lose their tour card. It may be about winning to those taking part but the fnancial side of it is all about the entertainment and the number of people wathcing. If it were only all about the winning, we could simply return to amateur sport. Amazing how it becomes all about the winning only once you have enough money to not worry about putting food on the table for the rest of your life.

I guess the comparitive would be footballers only getting paid if they finish high enough in the league. Shoudl players for relegated premiership sides not get paid. They have, after all 'missed the cut' and so were not up to standard and so do not deserve any wages.

A player can play badly for a successful team, or play well for a bad one. Golfers are all measured against the same standard, the 54 or 72 hole score. Footballers are not.

 

[Blue in Munich]

But why shouldn’t they get paid? They have provided entertainment for the event and brought fans in as I’m sure lots there wanted to see the number 1 player in the world.

Why does golf have to be so cut throat? Is it simply because “that’s the way it’s always been”?

They are effectively paid to entertain the crowds, who will marvel at their skill. They are not providing that service. If you have a contractor turn up to do a job at your house & he screws it up do you pay him?

 

[Swango1980]

Maybe you should take a step back and read what you highlighted ?

Yeah, read it thanks. I'm still happy that footballers that fail to play well still get paid. And, golfers that fail to make cuts don't get paid. It appeared you were trying to justify golfers not getting paid, and equating it to footballers not getting a new contract? Which, of course, is not comparing like with like. A footballer being let go by the club is like a golfer losing their spot on the PGA Tour.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Is that player for Barca able to go and play for Athletico as well. Under your view of his golf should work, they would.Does a golfer get fined if they are late for training? The footballer does.

This is the central issue here. The LIV golfers whine on about being independent contractors, usually overlooking the contract part, and want to be able to move freely between events, but they also compare themselves against employees for teams.

Do they want to be employees of the PGA Tour? Told which events to turn up for and when to train, and even what to eat? Sounds a bit like the LIV Tour has a stricter idea on determining who will turn up.

Well, the players on the LIV series - who do get guaranteed payments, can actually go and play elsewhere as well can't they, like they are doing this weekend?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah, read it thanks. I'm still happy that footballers that fail to play well still get paid. And, golfers that fail to make cuts don't get paid. It appeared you were trying to justify golfers not getting paid, and equating it to footballers not getting a new contract? Which, of course, is not comparing like with like. A footballer being let go by the club is like a golfer losing their spot on the PGA Tour.

So where in my post did I say that Phil Jones and Pogba didn’t get paid ?

it was quite simple - if a footballer doesn’t perform to a required standard for a club they are let go

If a golfer doesn’t play to the required standard they don’t go paid

People can look for any comparison they want

Golf is golf - it has its format , it rewards the golfers that do well and if someone doesn’t do well then they don’t get the rewards

 

[Mel Smooth]

Which one of the worlds best golfers is getting a “raw deal” ?

If they are one of the worlds best golfers they will be earning millions from endorsements alone plus millions from performances on the course in the tournaments ?

Which one of those golfers you are talking about is getting the raw deal ?

You are unbelievably obtuse on this discussion.

You are only seeing the players at the top of the rankings, you are ignoring all those that make up the field, quite happy for them to be collateral damage when it comes to what they get paid, as long as the event can have a cut, and be over 4 days, and you can get your VFM out of that SKy Sports package on a Sunday afternoon.

Take Scott Hend, I'm sure I saw a tweet earlier this year where he was 50k down on the season after missing the cut at the first 5 events. He's an aussie, playing the DP world tour, so will effectively live his life on aeroplanes and in hotels - he ranks just over 500 on the OWGR - how would you think that compares to the 500th best footballer in the world - given that the footballer is likely to be in the squad of one of the top 20 clubs globally?

 

[Slab]

More repeats than UK Gold

 

[Deleted member 3432]

So LIV is paying players appearance money.

That's been happening on the main tours for donkey's years.

The likes of Seve, Tiger or Rory didn't travel to Japan, China or the Middle East without a guaranteed fee up front.

 

[Swango1980]

So where in my post did I say that Phil Jones and Pogba didn’t get paid ?

it was quite simple - if a footballer doesn’t perform to a required standard for a club they are let go

If a golfer doesn’t play to the required standard they don’t go paid

People can look for any comparison they want

Golf is golf - it has its format , it rewards the golfers that do well and if someone doesn’t do well then they don’t get the rewards

So, even when I basically clarified exactly what I was getting at in post 3513, you still completely ignore it?

You are NOT comparing like with like. Therefore, the comparison you are trying to make falls flat on its face. Dare I say, perhaps you should read your post again. Really think hard about the point you are trying to make.

But, I will clarify my counter point yet again. A footballer doesn't play to the required standard, they get paid. A golfer doesn't play to the required standard, they don't. Do you see? Not the same.

 

[Ethan]

Well, the players on the LIV series - who do get guaranteed payments, can actually go and play elsewhere as well can't they, like they are doing this weekend?

The point, which you skirted, is that PGA Tour players are not the same as team players, who are highly restricted and contracted. Should the PGA Tour be able to demand transfer fees like football clubs for players who want to switch?

The LIV Tour players can currently play elsewhere because the LIV Tour is trying to test the rules of the PGA Tour legally. If Jediah plays all 8 events and finishes deal last in each one, he makes nearly a million dollars.