LIV Golf

[Lord Tyrion]

Like Tiger - who dominates golf media whenever he turns up at a golf course?

I think the LIV series might surprise a few people, and I think the PGA and journos that are up it's backside know it.

Shotgun starts, team drafts, team colours, shorter and more engaging golf which will suit the viewing public.

If Sergio and Westy were playing in any torunament, I'd still be drawn to watch them over some of the younger players, so there's no reason why they won't pull in the crowds for the LIV events. It will be interesting to see how the TV deal pans out - if it's accesible and not overly expensive, then people will tune in.

I think they have binned off the team idea, it will be standard stroke play comps.

Are you suggesting the names mentioned so far come anywhere near Tiger in creating media interest ?. Come on. They are pretty much all guys who no longer challenge, who are close to the seniors tour. All very good golfers, but on the decline from where they have been. It will get some interest, no question, but the public are not stupid and know a second rate competition. I'm not against this tour but so far the names don't challenge.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I think they have binned off the team idea, it will be standard stroke play comps.

Are you suggesting the names mentioned so far come anywhere near Tiger in creating media interest ?. Come on. They are pretty much all guys who no longer challenge, who are close to the seniors tour. All very good golfers, but on the decline from where they have been. It will get some interest, no question, but the public are not stupid and know a second rate competition. I'm not against this tour but so far the names don't challenge.

These are the same names that we'd be mentioning when talking about Ryder Cup selesctions, one of the greatest sporting events there is.

Have you any info on the team event being binned off, I've not see that myself and it still appears to be on the official website of the tour - infact it seems to be the backbone of the competition.

Nobody is suggesting this tour will usurp the majors, but it will certainly be more interesting to watch than a mundane 4 day tour. with very little action from the actual golf course.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Can someone explain to me why it is, or was, acceptable for the European Tour to accept Saudi money to sponsor European tour events, but not acceptable for individual golfers to accept Saudi money from a Saudi tour as I'm struggling a little with the distinction here?

And given that our cars are probably all running on petrol distilled from Saudi oil, do we all need to start walking to the golf club before we start pointing fingers?

I like you Rich, but the comparison of us peasants somehow try and source our own petrol is not a great argument (I think). Not picking out individual names, but the bigger picture, is there never a point when those that have it “all” can say: you know what, there’s a lot of things in this world that is wrong that we still do, but when this is directly sponsored by a regime that is chopping up journalists and stand for everything that is wrong then I don’t want to be a part of it. Money from golf has bought me that freedom, and this is simply a line that I don’t want to cross.

I understand that the money they’re paying is so good so it’s hard for a lot, or even most people to turn down, but there’s still plenty of those that could turn it down, simply because it’s the right thing to do, and who’s life won’t change one bit cause they already have all the money they need.

Where do you draw the line on what and where to play and/or buy or somehow support something inadvertently that is wrong? I don’t know exactly, but surely this has to be one of those things where, if you have the means, is one of them where you’d be looking yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what is it that I’m “supporting” by taking part?

For me, “I’m just a golfer” isn’t a valid argument. At the same time I understand that a lot of people who hasn’t set themselves and their families for generations to come to jump at this? Would I? Hell yes I would, but that is because at the end of the month I’m happy if I’ve got £200 to put into my savings. Sometimes I’m on overdraft with my account before the next pay check comes, so the money on the line would be truly life changing in my case.

As said. Money buys you freedom. For me, it’s just dissapointing that there aren’t more people like Bob McIntyre and Rory who says it so directly that they have a great life, and an extra few milllions that they’ve been blessed and worked hard for already just simply isn’t right given who is standing behind this.

On the topic of why it is acceptable for the European tour to accept money from Saudi previously. For me it isn’t. I don’t think they ever should’ve taken money from them, but as a corporation I somehow understand why. My girlfriend works for a well known clothing brand and in September she’s being put on a plane to go to Saudi Arabia for work. Neither I or her likes that, but we don’t have the financial means to say “to hell with that” as we’ve got a mortgage to pay. I’d love to tell her “you’re not going there” and we’ll sort it, but we simply aren’t in that position where we could do that.

 

[PJ87]

Can someone explain to me why it is, or was, acceptable for the European Tour to accept Saudi money to sponsor European tour events, but not acceptable for individual golfers to accept Saudi money from a Saudi tour as I'm struggling a little with the distinction here?

And given that our cars are probably all running on petrol distilled from Saudi oil, do we all need to start walking to the golf club before we start pointing fingers?

Well you could switch to EV, get some solar then wouldn't have to worry

However the point with the ET and this LIV tour is spot on tbh ..

 

[woofers]

Where do you draw the line on what and where to play and/or buy or somehow support something inadvertently that is wrong? I don’t know exactly, but surely this has to be one of those things where, if you have the means, is one of them where you’d be looking yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what is it that I’m “supporting” by taking part?

And doesn’t that apply beyond the players?
What is it that any host club, sponsors, TV coverage, caterers, franchises, etc are “supporting” by signing up to do business with LIV?
As far as I’m concerned this also extends to anyone turning up to The Centurion Club as a paying spectator or corporate guest.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

These are the same names that we'd be mentioning when talking about Ryder Cup selesctions, one of the greatest sporting events there is.

Have you any info on the team event being binned off, I've not see that myself and it still appears to be on the official website of the tour - infact it seems to be the backbone of the competition.

Nobody is suggesting this tour will usurp the majors, but it will certainly be more interesting to watch than a mundane 4 day tour. with very little action from the actual golf course.

Ryder Cup selections from yesteryear, when did Kaymer last play? Westwood had surely played his last, Donald (no confirmation there) isn't relevant. Only Garcia could potentially still play out of those mentioned and even he is on the cusp.

I haven't looked at their website, it was something I'd read. You could well be right ?

 

[Blue in Munich]

Well you could switch to EV, get some solar then wouldn't have to worry

However the point with the ET and this LIV tour is spot on tbh ..

You were saying?

https://imaginethat.org/stories/how-much-oil-is-in-an-electric-vehicle/

What makes an EV (Electric Vehicle) run?
Oil and natural gas.
True fact. They’re in every EV – every Chevy Bolt, every Toyota Prius, every Tesla anything.
Not in the form of fuel, no. In the form of high-performance, engineered polymers (a fancy way to say “modern plastics”) made from petrochemicals, which come from oil and natural gas. (And just for the record, many of those same polymers are also in non-EV cars and trucks.)

 

[Foxholer]

...
Have you any info on the team event being binned off, I've not see that myself and it still appears to be on the official website of the tour - infact it seems to be the backbone of the competition.
...

Team comp (only) would make it dull for me.

 

[PJ87]

You were saying?

https://imaginethat.org/stories/how-much-oil-is-in-an-electric-vehicle/
What makes an EV (Electric Vehicle) run?
Oil and natural gas.
True fact. They’re in every EV – every Chevy Bolt, every Toyota Prius, every Tesla anything.
Not in the form of fuel, no. In the form of high-performance, engineered polymers (a fancy way to say “modern plastics”) made from petrochemicals, which come from oil and natural gas. (And just for the record, many of those same polymers are also in non-EV cars and trucks.)

Yet they are in all cars .. so once you get past the initial use of plastics etc you are down to what you put in to go

 

[Foxholer]

You were saying?

https://imaginethat.org/stories/how-much-oil-is-in-an-electric-vehicle/
What makes an EV (Electric Vehicle) run?
Oil and natural gas.
True fact. They’re in every EV – every Chevy Bolt, every Toyota Prius, every Tesla anything.
Not in the form of fuel, no. In the form of high-performance, engineered polymers (a fancy way to say “modern plastics”) made from petrochemicals, which come from oil and natural gas. (And just for the record, many of those same polymers are also in non-EV cars and trucks.)

Gotta start somewhere!
Nobody, sensible, is saying EVs are 'environmentally friendly'. Just significantly less bad compared to Oil base fuelled ones.

 

[woofers]

Maybe you could take the EV discussion elsewhere………please

 

[Deleted member 25172]

And doesn’t that apply beyond the players?
What is it that any host club, sponsors, TV coverage, caterers, franchises, etc are “supporting” by signing up to do business with LIV?
As far as I’m concerned this also extends to anyone turning up to The Centurion Club as a paying spectator or corporate guest.

I fully agree on all of it, but same thing applies there as well for me. If the cater job goes to a small company and this job comes in and it would mean that they would secure the survival of the company for the next few years I’d understand it, but if it came to, say Gordon Ramsay, just as an example, then I’d question it. I personally wouldn’t attend Centurion when they host it even if someone gave me a ticket and handed me £1,000 to do it.

 

[Jason.H]

And doesn’t that apply beyond the players?
What is it that any host club, sponsors, TV coverage, caterers, franchises, etc are “supporting” by signing up to do business with LIV?
As far as I’m concerned this also extends to anyone turning up to The Centurion Club as a paying spectator or corporate guest.

Does this apply to the Saudi backed men’s and ladies European tour events?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Ok, if you want to take a moral view, you're going to have to give up golf.

Performance 54 are partly owned by Sanabil investements.
Sanabil Investments are owned by the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia - the bad guys.
Performance 54 work with Titleist, Footjoy, Flightscope, Rick Shiels - the list goes on.

They even worked with England Golf on launching the new WHS.


Sorry guys, better take up tiddlywinks or summat.

(I think this point has already been made a few times on this thread, but just thought it needed re-stating)

 

[PJ87]

Maybe you could take the EV discussion elsewhere………please

Maybe however if fuel is going to be brought into the debate about if its moral etc then it's a choice we can make

However I really don't think their is much wrong with the new tour

Money all over the world is dirty

The only reason this is an issue is because the PGA is making noise about their tour being under attack from potential talent stealing

Their is room for both tours along with the DP tour

 

[woofers]

Does this apply to the Saudi backed men’s and ladies European tour events?

Yep, I’ve previously posted that I initially respected Paul Casey for not attending due to his UNICEF ambassador role and then my disappointment when he took the Saudi money in later events.
It would be so powerful if any of the sporting authorities, golf, F1, motoGP, etc were to say NO to the middle east countries and decided not to hold any events there.
Essential trade is one thing, politics and diplomacy can usually find a way to deal with these even if you have to hold your nose, but sport is not necessary and just tries to “legitimise“ the regimes.

 

[HeftyHacker]

Yep, I’ve previously posted that I initially respected Paul Casey for not attending due to his UNICEF ambassador role and then my disappointment when he took the Saudi money in later events.
It would be so powerful if any of the sporting authorities, golf, F1, motoGP, etc were to say NO to the middle east countries and decided not to hold any events there.
Essential trade is one thing, politics and diplomacy can usually find a way to deal with these even if you have to hold your nose, but sport is not necessary and just tries to “legitimise“ the regimes.

The flipside of that is that by these international sports holding events in these countries it casts a spotlight on them and may play a role in dragging them into the modern world.

For clarity I work for a Saudi owned company and work with a number of Saudi men and women and find the vast majority of them to be really decent, intelligent and articulate individuals.

People who have worked for the company longer than I have noticed a big change over quite a small period of time in Saudi culture as it becomes more westernised. So it may be that the change required actually comes from within. Sports events like this will give the Saudi nationals more exposure to a more Liberal way of life and may accelerate this change.

 

[Oddsocks]

Can someone explain to me why it is, or was, acceptable for the European Tour to accept Saudi money to sponsor European tour events, but not acceptable for individual golfers to accept Saudi money from a Saudi tour as I'm struggling a little with the distinction here?

And given that our cars are probably all running on petrol distilled from Saudi oil, do we all need to start walking to the golf club before we start pointing fingers?

Ive been saying this all along.

 

[Foxholer]

Can someone explain to me why it is, or was, acceptable for the European Tour to accept Saudi money to sponsor European tour events, but not acceptable for individual golfers to accept Saudi money from a Saudi tour as I'm struggling a little with the distinction here?
...

See posts 219-221

...
And given that our cars are probably all running on petrol distilled from Saudi oil, do we all need to start walking to the golf club before we start pointing fingers?

Pretty much a necessity for a while. As is the continuation of import of Russian oil (18% of UK's Diesel consumption 8% overall; 0% Petrol; 5% of Jet Fuel) though there's been a commitment to phase that out within a year, and Gas (4% 'not dependent on it; exploring options to reduce this further').
By far the majority of UK imports of both Oil and Gas come from Norway (13,1M tonnes) and US (11.45M Tonnes - Oil only).

 

[BiMGuy]

Why was there not widespread condemnation of the people competing in the recent Winter Olympics? Where is the difference?* Or for playing in the US which itself is no stranger to human rights issues. The US might not be as bad as the Saudis but China is.

You’ll all turn a blind eye as long as your pension is doing well and you can buy cheap stuff from China.






* Money